AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

What a ridiculous binary to propose.

The fact is that girls and women deserve privacy and dignity away from males is an absolute undeniable principal. Yes, young boys should be able to accompany their mums and there should be a sensible cut off age. 9 is probably just beyond this imo.

The assaults that happen in male toilets are not a female problem to fix. You don’t tell women to ‘budge up’ just to avoid holding men accountable.

Where is this 8 year old rule??

I think it depends. But mine would still be with me due to shyness. He’s no risk to women. Once he’s confident he’ll start to go to the mens and I’ll wait outside.

some kids are more confident/worldly wise. Some areas are safer than others too so I wools use my judgement and common sense.

ignore the old lady.

Give over with your fictitious ‘rules’ 🙄

That’s like saying, “You think children should ride in cars – it sounds like you’re cool with the risk of them dying in car accidents.” Most children riding in cars do not die in car accidents, and most boys using the men’s bathroom are not sexually assaulted there.

Is it psychologically healthy for boys to be taught that the risk of sexual assault in a men’s bathroom is so great that their mothers will never let them go in there alone – even if the mothers are standing right outside the door? Or is that like teaching a child that the risk of dying in a car accident is so great that they should never ride in a car?

9 is too old to be using the female toilet. He might look older than 9. The lady was not wrong to speak to the mother about taking a male over 8 into the female toilet. Where does your friend draw the line? Is this boy allowed into female changing rooms after swimming? Or into female changing rooms in shops?

Where does the whole concept of taking opposite-sex children in to the adult's sex toilets begin and why? I've always assumed it's because babies and little children are either too young to be toilet trained or otherwise are gaining confidence in toilet training, but still need help and/or reassurance in wiping themselves, hygiene and not leaving the toilet or their clothes an horrific mess - thus they can't do it independently of an adult; and if the little child is a boy and he's only out with his mum, gran or other female carer, she obviously takes him into the ladies with her.

Most children (unless they have disabilities) are confident with using the toilet on their own once they're at school and don't need an adult to help them, although there may be a 'crossover' period of a year or so.

When did 'needing to help little children using the toilet' turn into 'male toilets are hotbeds of child assault and so nobody should use them until they're old/able enough to fight off an attacker' - which, in the case of some males would be never, so unless they're disabled, they'd need to use the ladies' too - or maybe men who have grown weaker and more vulnerable as a natural consequence of ageing should also use the ladies' as well?

Yes, sadly, people can be assaulted and attacked anywhere; but the vast, vast, vast majority of people going into a toilet are doing so because they need the toilet; no drama.

As for men 'exposing themselves' when using urinals, they're standing facing a wall with their penises a few inches outside of their trousers - shielded by their hands, bodies and any privacy screen fixtures. Even if anybody does happen to catch a momentary glimpse of a penis, there's nothing whatsoever sexual about a man using his penis for its primary function of having a wee. They aren't all dancing around the middle of the room, doing big willy windmills and singing "I feel prettyyyyyyy" whilst they splash piss everywhere.

I’ve answered that question already

It's not fictitious. Every swimming pool I've ever been too has this rule for changing and using toilets.

It's a general specification, and it's about privacy and dignity, not just about his risk to us women and girls.

Your son's shyness is not our problem. Deal with it or maybe leave him at home. The 'old woman' was right, and was right to call it out. 99% of women would, too.

but What are the chances of a “decent” man being in the toilet to protect a child if there was a problem??

Exactly this.

It also wouldn't bother me if a man came in with a daughter. He is no danger to me.

I remember going to a small hotel swimming pool and my then 6 year old DS was told he had to use the men's changing or we wouldn't be allowed in. He was tall for his age but still only 6. I had joined the gym but this was the first time I had taken the children. DS chose to use the men's alone and I stood outside occasionally talking to him and him answering back. Now the signs I see generally say 8 and up must use their own sex changing room. I would definitely say 9 is too old to be using the women's changing unless there are other needs/considerations.

Well done! And that's what needs to be said to all these mothers of these 9 year old + boys.

So no rule then! Just a MN made up thing.

deal with it?! What planet are you on??

I will continue doing as I want with my own children to keep them safe.

he’s perfectly private in a cubicle with me.

what a horrible post.

What is the chance of a decent man helping a child? Very high.

Most men are decent, not perfect, but decent.

“He’s no risk to women”

You’re spectacularly missing the point.

It’s not about risk assessing every case. Women’s toilets should be free of all males (beyond young children) so that women and girls are assured of optimum privacy, dignity and safety in every case. It’s about the rights of females not the rights of boys.

But women do have privacy. They have a cubicle.

They don't need privacy when they are washing their hands!

The 8 rule is because it’s what a lot of places have as signed on the changing rooms and toilets. It’s the more universal age companies have decided to use.

Likely because some children start puberty around 9 years old.

Normally the signs go up once there have been complaints.

I’ve actually seen a sign before state boys over 6 must use the men’s room.

You need to have a word with these women. I would.

I wouldn’t mess about - it would be along the lines of ‘If I see your son staring at my daughter while she is changing one more time I will put in a complaint about him.’

I have sons and if, for some reason, I had had to bring them in with me I would have made sure they were right next to me facing the wall not looking at someone.

Really? What makes you so sure he is not a danger to you? What about rape and trauma victims that see him? Or is it all about you? Your consent is not transferable.

Absolutely this. The number of young boys you hear about being sexually assaulted and raped in men’s public toilets is horrific. Particularly bad at bus and train stations. 9 is still a child. Not old enough to handle these situations. We need to protect all children not just girls!

Slightly different to what the OP is posting about though.

i agree that girls and boys shouldn’t be in a changing room at the same time at that age.

we use cubicles when I’m out with my kids.

Thank you. Makes me so sad to read some of these posts.

It's not for you to decide for everyone else who comes into the women's toilets or changing room.

You only get to decide for yourself - so in your own space/home.

He is not allowed in there.

He has to take his daughter to the men's toilet.

Yes, so what?