AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

Because men deserve privacy from Adult females too.
Women have no more right to enter the mens than Men have to enter the Womens.

Children should got into the correct facilities for the adult they are with, not the other way round.

Come on. Do you really think it is ok to send young children on their own to the men's toilets? Crazy.

The issue here is so few shopping centres (unless more modern) have family toilet areas. Because that would be most appropriate.

Honestly there's often more privacy concerns with mens toilets where there may be open urinals than there is with women's where it is all closed cubicles.

But yes. Young children (under 10s certainly) should be going to the toilet based on the sex of the adult caregiver they are with.

Thats exactly what I mean men deserve privacy from women too.

While women have safety fears too. There's is still the privacy issues for men.
I actually can't believe someone suggested a mum takes her son into the mens toilets.

That's exactly the thing thats lead to Changing Villages in sports centres individual cubicles so parents don't need to leave children completely unattended.

Maybe toilets should just go that way too, self contained individual cubicles (just don't moan if men piss on the seats).

It comes up all the time on MN which toilets 8/9/10 year olds should be using.

There isn't much difference between an 8 year old and a 9 year old yet, according to this thread, one is fine and the other isnt. Who gives you the right to determine arbitrarily that your daughter is able to consent in one case but not in the other? The logic doesnt make sense. Either boys are allowed (my view) or they're not. Any other argument is just someone saying "8 is fine fine by me" while another thinks actually it should be "9 is fine with me" - just a personal view which doesnt mean anything.

The law does apply to public toilets, as I said have you been on Mumsnet in the last 10 years?

There is also that thing of all children are different. Some 9yos will behave responsibility others will faff.

I think the age thing should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's a guideline not matter what it says they'll always be people who push it. If they said 10 you'd end up with 12 year olds in the ladies and that's definitely too old.

The safety of a child comes first.
How on earth does having a young boy in a female hand washing area cause indignity?
It's not like a gang of 15 year old lads were hanging out in there smoking dope and intimidating people.
Personally I'd have told the complainer to mind her own business. For all she knew the child could have additional needs and /or other vulnerabilities.

Not sure how that is the case when I'm a clinical specialist in CAMHS and deal with sexual assault victims and offenders. My Masters was about risk management of adolescent sex offenders and I have extensive adult experience too. I am classed as an expert in my field and I have been an expert witness in several court cases. I'd say I am quite well informed and up to date.

What a vile comment. Please have some compassion. I doubt any 9 year old girls have been attacked by 9 year old boys who are being accompanied to the toilet by their mother.

Show me the statistics that prove it's all too frequent. You can't as they don't exist. There are a very low number of sexual assaults in male public toilets and the frequency is no higher than any other public place. There is no increased risk in a male toilet.

I've never heard of a rule that says that boys over 8 should use the men's toilet. I took my son in with me until he felt comfortable going into the men's toilet alone. That may have been around 8 or 9 I can't remember now.

Mother's don't send boys into the women's toilets alone so the chance of them attacking young girls is ludicrous.

I’m not telling people how to parent.
Over cautiousness in many areas, walking to school, boys going in ladies toilets, no playing out etc is one of the reasons we’re are raising emotionally frail adults. Children need to take calculated risks, they need to learnt to navigate the world.
My boys went in the men’s, I stood outside. If they took too long I shouted for them and on one occasion I popped in to check - ran in ran out. I managed the risk.

Boredandgrand, your view is very interesting.
I remember being in Cornwall a few years back and a young boy had been sexually assaulted in the male public toilet on the beach. The same public toilet that my DH had been accompanying our two small lads to all week.
Just because the risk is low doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The risks of my children falling off a high building or being eaten by a tiger are very low, but largely I guess because they would never be in that situation.
If parents want to accompany a child to the loo, then that is surely their right and their discretion.

I don’t think many 9 year old boys have attacked anyone whilst under their mother’s supervision. And if they have, then the mother isn’t safe to be in the ladies loos either. And then where does this end?

We aren’t talking about gangs of 9 year olds out invading the toilets, this is an individual boy, accompanied by their mum.

But he doesn't need to. Those toilets should be for people who have no other choice but to use disabled facilities.
He doesn't need a higher toilet or extra hand rails or a cord to tug if he gets stuck. Some people really do need this. Obviously if we have the same issue as he approaches teenage years I would use the disabled toilet but not now.
Like I said he is only 6 but I won't apologise for using the ladies with him for a few more years

Totally a parents right to do what they want. I am simply pointing out the risk is extremely low. If we tried to eliminate all risk from our lives, then very little would be done. The more emotive a topic is, the less people use critical analysis and facts.

There are 2 separate issues

1. You feel the male toilets are unsafe for 9 year old son.

2. over-age male in female-only space

Nobody on here questions your right to (1) BUT then it becomes a "you problem" that YOU need to find an acceptable solution to, not girls and women generally.

What age do men’s toilets become safe? If they are not safe at 9, they can’t really be safe at 11? What about 14 if your son is short? Some teenage boys can be very naive a vulnerable what about 14 for them?

Yes - my cousin when he was child was raped in a shopping centre toilets by a man whilst my auntie stood outside.

I do not need the world to revolve around me - but I do need it to help me keep my little boy safe.

are you hearing how unkind and uncaring you sound about little boys? I’m guessing you don’t have one.

An 8 year old boy is not a man.

I wouldn’t be bothered about a 9 year old boy in the ladies with his mum and sister. My DD is 9 and I would never send her to public toilets alone!

If you’re going back to the good old days when kids could play out safely, you’re going right back. Those days are long gone.

Ok, I'm a good sport.

If you can please point me to the actual legislation which says Person A requires the consent of Person B to enter public toilets or similar, or any wording to that effect, I will cheerfully retract my comment and admit you are right.

As I asked another poster though, the actual legislation please, all of which is freely available on legislation.gov.uk, and not a screenshot from X or somewhere else.

While their mothers watch? Not very likely.