AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

Consent not being transferable is a basic principle. You can’t not agree to something for someone else.. You can come up with as many silly examples as you want and that doesn’t help your argument.

I used to send my boys into the men’s, I didn’t just leave them to it I’d stand around outside. If something felt off, I’d shout in - are you two ok in there? Just letting people know I was around.
Boys need to learn how to navigate toilets. If we over protect them at 9 when do we stop 10, 11,12? One of the many reasons anxiety is rising is we take away any element of risk and increase concerns. To say to a 9 year old boy, men are not safe you must stay with the women may long term have a number of other impacts you don’t expect and could lead to.
We are failing to raise confident young men, who are also respectful. It’s a tricky balance but a 9 year old boy in the ladies is not helping anyone.

Consent also doesn't apply to who else occupies a public space. It's completely irrelevant when it comes to who else is in a public toilet.

I’ve no idea where some posters are getting the ‘rule’ about age 8 from. It’s up for mums to decide what is appropriate.

Consent doesn’t apply to who is in a toilet? You appear to have have missed the last 10 years of Mumsnet.

You appear to be mistaking Mumsnet for the law.

People are also fond of repeating "I do not consent" when being filmed in public. It doesn't mean it has any relevance.

Consent applies to e.g. sexual encounters, medical procedures. It is a specific concept in UK law.

It does not apply to things like who else is in a public space with you, even though you might not like them being there.

No, its actually up to the managers of the facilities and ultimately the law. 8 is quoted here because that's the norm quoted for changing rooms and what most of society uses.

Well the other poster has done a fine job on explaining why, in fact, your comments on consent in a public space are 'silly'.

I also do not think a 9 year old boy being accompanied by his mum to the ladies loo a few times in his life is going to raise a nation of anxious young men. Safeguarding your kids is not over protecting them. It's been well documented as to why mental health problems are growing in the current generations of young people - this is not one of those causes. On another note, experiencing sexual abuse as a child is a known cause of mental health problems in adults though fyi. Stop telling mothers how to parent and safeguard their children.

Public toilets are not mothers spaces, they're womens spaces, so being a mother doesn't give you some over riding importance that means you get to change the rules. Womens toilets are for women and girls, if you take an older boy in there, who is fully capable to go to the toilet himself, and you make other women and girls feel uncomfortable, or force them to have to wait longer to use the toilet, then it is you who should be apologetic, because the space isn't for your son.

I left a job as a teenager because of predatory older women. It isn't always men.

What about boys with SEN though? Would you (and I know some people would) object to an older boy with SEN in the ladies? If so where is he meant to go? Not everywhere has family toilets and often baby change rooms are too small for an older child in nappies.. I wouldn't use a disabled toilet either because my son doesn't need a disabled toilet and I'd hate to make someone who genuinely needed it wait
I'm probably okay taking DS to the ladies at the moment because he's 6 but I'm afraid he won't be going in to the men's alone at 8 as he simply wouldn't be able to cope (even if he was toilet trained by then).
I will not apologise for it either. Neither me or my DS chose for him to have SEN. He has the right to be out in public, sometimes it will mean him using the ladies toilet and that's just the way it is.

The pool I use doesn't have male female or family changing facilities. Just a changing area with cubicles.

Boys who need help with toileting are perfectly entitled to use the disabled facilities with a parent @Stressedoutmummyof3 , they are for people who cant use the standard facilities for whatever reason.

It's not a silly argument. You just don't have an answer for it. What if a 10 year old girl objects to a 4 year old boy using the toilet with his mum? Do you dismiss her concerns?

Well we all need to find a solution. Maybe if there aren't safe facilities for boys all toilets should be closed until that is sorted out. It's ok as we can all do what mothers of 9 year old boys are being told to do don't go out for long. It will be ok and if 100% of people are inconvenienced things would get sorted out. I'm sure all the feminists would accept the inconvenience to support other women.

Your son is disabled, he should be using the disabled toilets.

In this case of a 4 year old boy if I was the mother of the 10 year old girl we would be having a serious discussion about the mother taking the boy in for his own safety. There's a world of difference between a pre school child and a 9 year old.

@TheignT We don't need to find any solutions at all.

Boys over the age of around 8 (with a few years wiggle room for particular situations) go to the mens, as do all men

Women and girls over the age of 8 go to the women's

Different sex parents/grandparents/carers take children under 8 to their own sex toilets.

Disabled children and adults over 8ish use disabled facilities

The risk for boys is being massively overstated - there are risks in life all the time that we take and the reported attacks were often of older boys and men.

The solution to men's problems is not to push them onto women.

Not about me as a mother. It’s about a child being vulnerable - in this case a little boy child. Sounds like you’re saying little boys don’t have the same right to safety as a little girl.

They are not men. They are 9 year old boys. I, as a mother, have found my own solution by taking my son into the women's loos and I will continue to do so until i decide not to.

Yes I have also no idea why people are using the over 8 argument here as that applies to public changing facilities in which people get naked. But we are not talking about changing rooms are we? We are talking about a room full of lockable cubicles in a women's loo. The mind boggles. Continually.

The solution to men’s problems is not to push them into women….its to push them onto little boys.

I'm sure the girls would have been perfectly safe in the mens with their Dad.

Yes of course, thats what im saying 🙄
Please do share the statistics for boys being attacked in mens toilets though, theres been a lot of talk about it, but little evidence of this huge danger.

Well I don’t need statistics because I have personal experience. Want to keep going?

Personal experience of being a boy attacked by an adult man in the mens toilets?!

And no, personal anecdotes dont mean you get to use womens spaces however you wish, because guess what, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Do you think no 9 year old girls have ever been attacked by a 9 year old boy? Do you think about how this makes them feel at all?