To think this information is missing from the news about white working class children in schools?

[Machinemasoluem]

That the definition of working class is FSM eligibility..

FSM is not a good definition of working class. At all.
The eligibility is earning less than 7.4k a year so barely anyone and its hardly working and will include children busy caring for disabled parents who don’t have time for homework, children who’s parents have alcohol or even drug problems. Etc

Absolutely no judgement from me my child gets FSM (I was only 16 when I had him and he was eligible when he started school but once you get them it lasts until the end of primary school) but it seems obvious that children from homes with issues that prevent them earning more than 7.4k will more likely struggle at school.

In September every child whose parents receive universal credit will be eligible for FSM so millions more children and from more ordinary working families. Even some middle class families receive universal credit so FSM still won’t be a good definition of working class.

I think the statistics around this will definitely be watered down when this happens. In the meantime why is it acceptable for people to act like white people are terrible parents unless they have the money for a tutor and all non white parents are superior at instilling discipline, respect and the importance of hard work? There are areas in London with obvious issues and it would be considered really racist to blame parenting.

I was responding to a poster who was trying to say £7.4 k wasn’t the current threshold. It is. But in September all UC claimants will be eligible.

All uc claimaints will be able to order free meals for their children in September no matter what type of FSMs they are

Holy shit you are desperate to be right at all costs. I have heard it used in those ways loads of times and I am using it in one of those ways right now.

Im sorry you weren’t aware words can have more than one meaning.

It’s quite simple really! One only has to have reading comprehension skills to understand OPs point.

Class isn't only about earnings though. So by your reasoning a SW earning 30k is working class but if she was married to a wealthy man she would be middle class??

You posted on the original thread and started this TAAT on the basis that it would affect the statistics. It won't. There are two very clearly delineated types of entitlement coming in and the one that is exactly the same as now will be the one used as the comparator.

I could go on to mention the separate FSM provision for families who are No Recourse to Public Funds, whose entitlement and eligibility for Pupil Premium is also unchanged (and will affect children whose origin or self declared ethnicity is not White British or Irish) - they are already included in the datasets.

In any case, eligibility for FSM - Targeted from September and from that point, renewed annually now transitional protections for the migration to UC, the rollout of live monitoring of income and entitlements, the end of Covid (and no pesky General Elections to make it convenient to kick the can down the road for another year like the Conservative Government did repeatedly after the planned end date) - is absolutely an effective proxy for disadvantage, including the groups you seem to think shouldn't be included.

So upper class are different again then? Ever heard of impoverished gentility

Could not agree more. Also: get some imagination - Doctor, lawyer, accountant and that’s basically it. 🙄

That was my mother’s view. I’m a lawyer. Am I happy? No. And I have several missing teeth from anxious grinding at night, to boot. Wonderful.

Couldn’t agree more. You see the reality of those expectations. My mum was a mental health nurse and at one point in her career, led the uni MH dept in the city we live in. RG uni, tonnes of international students.

This was around 15 years ago. She always just wanted us to be happy. We never faced any pressure like that.

Oh yes, I forgot accountancy and engineering were also accepted professions 🙄It’s just crazy. I see this mentality still amongst even second and third generation immigrant populations. There are so many more jobs out there.

I have no idea where my kids will end up and I find that quite exciting. They obviously have the privilege of a good education and academic background. But I will never force them into a career they hate and have not done so.

I get what you’re saying and it is genuinely a good contribution to the discussion. A good nugget of information I appreciate it because I didn’t know that.

The reason I keep repeating how the eligibility is changing is because the conversation moved on to the question of are middle class “yummy mummies”(love that saying btw) receiving FSM for their dc?
Im just saying they definitely aren’t now but come September they may well be you’ll be surprised how some families have relatively good jobs and still get a little UC

I think there is a much larger cultural issue here. I don't think a train driver is working class, although culturally they might be. I don't assume nurses are either, although traditionally many are. But if you shuffle paper in an office on the back of a 2:2 from a 1992 university, I do tend to assume that you are not the sharpest tool in the box.

In my opinion, yes, because her household income and lifestyle are upheld by the husbands wealth not her own income.

But lifestyle doesn't always equate to income either. Sone people who don't have money get into debt for a certain lifestyle, others have pots of money and live very frugally

And by your theory Vicky Pollard could marry someone well off, and would make her middle class, yet in all honesty wouldn't be the slightest bit classy

Impoverished UC aren't living in the local council estates on state benefits though. They live in very large homes that they cannot afford to upkeep, but could sell but they refuse to do so. They might be very cash poor but most are not asset poor.

There are many ways to stratify class.

Why do people aspire to do social work?

To help children.

Correct So income isn't the only factor.

Social workers do t just deal with kids. My best mate was a social worker but she didn't work with kids at all

But many many working g class people aren't living in council estates on benefits either that's the whole point. My parents owned a house. They were a postman and shop assistant. Neither of them had gone o levels

We were working class.

I think people should have GCSEs. It's a good start

Huh? What do GCSEs have to do with anything?

GCSEs have a link to higher earnings

The point I was making was that the "impoverished" UC are not impoverished in the way that the "working class" children are who are the focus of the research are. I'm not so concerned about the WC title tbh, it can and is misleading because as has been illustrated here, the term means different things to different people, and has even evolved over time. Many people my age (mid 40s) came from households that were WC and they were home owners. It wasn't unusual for a man with a WC job to be the sole earner and to still be able to afford to buy. That wouldn't be an option now.

@Zippedydoobaah It certainly is possible now! Some jobs pay well and of course a “working class” type job can earn enough to buy a property. Just maybe not in expensive areas but plenty really do buy homes.