To think this information is missing from the news about white working class children in schools?

[Machinemasoluem]

That the definition of working class is FSM eligibility..

FSM is not a good definition of working class. At all.
The eligibility is earning less than 7.4k a year so barely anyone and its hardly working and will include children busy caring for disabled parents who don’t have time for homework, children who’s parents have alcohol or even drug problems. Etc

Absolutely no judgement from me my child gets FSM (I was only 16 when I had him and he was eligible when he started school but once you get them it lasts until the end of primary school) but it seems obvious that children from homes with issues that prevent them earning more than 7.4k will more likely struggle at school.

In September every child whose parents receive universal credit will be eligible for FSM so millions more children and from more ordinary working families. Even some middle class families receive universal credit so FSM still won’t be a good definition of working class.

I think the statistics around this will definitely be watered down when this happens. In the meantime why is it acceptable for people to act like white people are terrible parents unless they have the money for a tutor and all non white parents are superior at instilling discipline, respect and the importance of hard work? There are areas in London with obvious issues and it would be considered really racist to blame parenting.

@Lifeonvenus100because not everyone’s like you, teaching their kids that the most important thing in one’s career is to chase the dollar in a hugely narrow range of “acceptable” careers. Some believe other things are important, like working towards a better society and helping those in most desperate need. We don’t all want to live in your Thatcherite utopia. 🙄

True, people I know who wanted to be social workers usually wanted to be one from a young age to help children, without thinking about how much it pays.
The pay is also not bad it’s just not amazing (especially considering the awful and stressful things you will experience) there are jobs that pay a lot worse.

Exactly most working class will earn too much to get FSM. I work minimum wage and earn over £7.4k my son only gets them because I was unemployed when he started school due to having him so young and honestly being a bum for a few years. Not proud to admit it but I was just lower class then can you even be called working class if you aren’t working.

I only think it’s incredibly misleading to put out headlines about “white working class” and have columnists saying white parents are lazy and useless, acting like all non white families are far more dedicated to studying and discipline.
I actually do know some Indians like this and good for them but you definitely can’t generalise. After all we see what goes on in London and it would be racist to blame it on parenting.

I very much want to encourage my children to do something that helps work towards a better society but social work is something I'd actively discourage. Any social workers I know (and I work with a lot) are ill from the stress. It is hugely demanding, requires lots of unpaid overtime and your ass is constantly on the firing line. The ones who aren't stressed don't give a shit so certainly aren't making society better.

I aspire to be able to meet my own bills and put food on the table

Fair enough @Zippedydoobaah: however, my answer was in response to PP’s really silly question about why someone MIGHT aspire to become a social worker: she couldn’t seem to fathom why, which is fairly lacking in imagination.

I’d never “actively discourage” my kid from a (lawful) career path - instead, I’d ask questions I’d ask them to think about the answers to, to encourage them to make an informed choice.

Yeah, so do I - one can do that without having a “well-paid” career. I can just imagine the list of careers you deem acceptable: I know loads like you IRL.

Social workers have an ok wage obviously not as much as a CEO. But it’s a middle class career and they can afford to put food on the table.
Most of them go into it wanting to help people and not just for the money not everyone is materialistic

Exactly. social worker aren’t amazingly paid little Timmy why don’t you become a drug dealer instead

What difference does it make?
Schools don’t care whether kids get fsm or not. They look at their needs snd respond accordingly.

I've seen too many ill - often experiencing suicidal thoughts - social workers that I feel it would be a huge disservice not to discourage them. I want them to be happy and being in a job where they can be relatively sane is crucial. I'm very aware though they may or may not take my advice.

Why choose a pathway knowing it'll be a struggle in the future to make ends meet? If you don't struggle and can make ends meet fine by it.

Ultimately don't you want to be able to maybe one day own a house, perhaps live independently without a flatmate? Go abroad, buy things without having to constantly worry about the price? Have a family of your own?

A social worker can do all of those. It’s not that badly paid, it’s only plaid poorly compared to all the stress and fucked up things you see.

You do not need to be high paid to do those things.

Also, you’re speaking to me like I’m not a sophisticated operator who’s able to assess this stuff for myself and help my kid navigate it too. Please stop it; it’s incredibly patronising.

I mean that's decent enough.I was wondering if it was one of those jobs where someone needs to rely on UC tops up for a long period of time.

Fair point

Idk but Loads of jobs are like that now. Almost everyone with kids seems to get UC even if it’s only a little. I think most kids will get free school meals this September when the eligibility changes

It always comes with some stress, but don’t assume the ones who have managed to compartmentalise, implement mental boundaries and coping mechanisms to help them with the role, are necessarily shit. Each team is different, some are more supportive than others. Management and turnover etc, decent supervision. A wild statement to make that if you’re not ill with stress, you don’t give a shit. Some people are also highly suited to the role, particularly if they have had experience themselves in chaotic backgrounds and using services themselves.

For some people, a non impact, bullshit job, drains their soul and batteries far more than social work. Everyone is different.

The category “working class” has become almost meaningless tbh.

It used to refer primarily to the waged industrial working class. The percentage of people who do manual industrial jobs has shrunk hugely.

It now is a blanket term that basically means either a) people in blue collar jobs or b) people directly descended from the industrial workers. There are people within this category who work in trades turning over £200k plus a year and people on benefits with children on FSM. I have a friend whose dad worked in a car plant who has two degrees, takes home £150k a year and owns two properties who considers herself working class. She may be of working class heritage and “feel” working class but economically she is definitely not.

Meanwhile immigrants don’t fit neatly into this category as many are highly educated and credentialed but work minimum wage jobs because they lack the social capital to get jobs commensurate to their education. And then of course theres what casually called the “underclass” (generational unemployment), which is largely what people are talking about here.

It’s absurd to lump all these people into the same category.

The ones I know who cope well say they only do so because they forced themselves not to give a shit, it's not an observation I made myself. Nearly all of the SWs I know say they became worse as people for it, and not a single one would do it again if they had their time again.

Not my experience. I know a good few. The large majority did various stints in child protection and then moved on or specialised. Particularly if the stress did get too high. One became an academic and went into research, another one went into adult services, another into management. My cousin took her expertise into the charity sector. Forcing yourself not to give a shit means you’re suffering from compassion fatigue, or you’re just not right for the job. Why people like that stay in CP is beyond me. Being a SW comes with a lot of diversity or potential side steps.