Nursery hinting my 3 year old has autism.

[LostandFounded]

I have two DC. DC1 10, DC2 3.

My youngest child’s nursery have recently hinted they think they might be autistic. The reasons they have given is that my child doesn’t listen, doesn’t do what the other kids are doing, is always on their own agenda and doesn’t answer or turn to their name. One example they gave is when everyone else is sat doing circle time my child won’t join in and wants to carry on doing their own thing. My child does also have some speech issues which can make it difficult to understand what they are saying (not massively difficult though). They also asked about hearing tests which have come back with no issues. This is my second child and with my first they also had some speech issues but now at 10 they are fine with no diagnosis and nobody has ever said anything about them having autism. I am quite frustrated as this is my second child and I know my children better than anyone, I am sure my second child will grow up to be similar to my first one who definitely doesn’t have autism and as I said in their life (even though there were speech issues very early on) no autism was ever mentioned. I’m not sure what to do going forward as I feel nursery doesn’t understand my child and will treat them differently as they have hinted at these autistic traits. I also think my child is only 3 how can you possibly suggest that, I’m sure there are many children who were similar and did not go on to have autism, not sure how that can be suggested at only 3.

IF he is autistic you need to come to terms with it both of you because otherwise you are in for a rough ride.

I don’t understand at all why you’re so upset about this.

You clearly love your child and I assume you want the best for them. If they are diagnosed as autistic, nothing will change, they will still be the child you know and love.

What does change is that others, including schools and day care centres will be given more strategies to help your child to be successful. Why wouldn’t you want this?

Daycare providers have seen thousands of of three year olds, so they may be seeing something outside the norm. But, they’re not doctors either, so they could be wrong.

Either way, get an assessment. If your child is autistic you’d want strategies to help them sooner rather than later. If they’re not diagnosed as autistic then you get to say I told you do to day care.

Don't have an assessment and your poor child might just be treated by others as naughty or oppositional and surely you don’t want that either.

But my child is now joining in, albeit in a slightly different way, is lying down to listen to a story or standing up to eat really that unusual?

Yes. It is.
A typically developing child who attends Nursery regularly, will do what other children there are doing. It comes from within a typically developing child that they have a natural instinct to act like all their peers are.
I worked for many years in a job involving identifying and supporting dc with additional needs (and 95% of those who were flagged to us, we were talking about Autism), and the refusing to come and sit at the table / eating standing up away from their peers / lying across the carpet when their peers are sitting in a group for a story or singing or language development session are all really typical indicators of autism in Nursery children.

I'm not sure why you are so afraid of getting support ?
If he doesn't have autism, then he won't get a diagnosis.
If he does, he will still be your little boy who you love dearly. A diagnosis won't change who it is. What it will do is make it easier to access help and support and it will help people know what they might try with him, to give him the support he needs.

I get that, but when a child is used to doing things a certain way (like story lying down at bedtime), isn’t it a given they will then do the same thing at nursery ie. Associating lying down and sleeping with a story??

There really isn’t any other indicators of ND or autism, the only thing nursery is saying is not joining in in the same way as the other children (which is explained by learnt behaviour at home), not listening well (they are 3) and speech being a bit harder to understand, but my elder child was the same and has never had any concerns raised about them. In my opinion that doesn’t warrant an autism assessment, I’ve looked up the test online and questionnaires and there is nothing I can relate to - obsessions, repetitiveness, eye contact, nothing like that at all.

The autistic children I have met it is very clear they are autistic, my child is nothing like that. Also when we are with friends apart from being slightly worse with listening (tbh it’s barely even noticeable really) and the speech differences (again my elder child was the same), there is no differences between them and I look at it completely objectively and try to spot traits and differences and there aren’t any.

@LostandFounded the whole point is that for typically developing children, they will adapt their behaviour to a setting. They will learn that at home they can say "Mum, mum, mum, I'm hungry", and at preschool they wait until snack time. They will learn that at home they get to do whatever they fancy, but at preschool they have to take turns with the sand table, or the painting easel. They learn that at home they can do roly-polys but at preschool it's not allowed. They learn that at home they can sit on the sofa with a chocolate bar, but at preschool they have to sit at the table. Children who are neurodivergent don't have the same ability to recognise that different settings have different rules. That's why it's significant.

Typically developing children will follow the group. I'm not saying they'll all do exactly the same thing at exactly the same time, but they will see what behaviour is expected in a situation and copy it. That was one of the big markers for me that DD2 has ASD. It took until she was 9 for other people to believe me. But I saw that when it was snowing one day, a deer ran onto the field. A child spotted it, then every single child was at the window, looking at the deer. Except one. The one who continued stacking her blocks, with no interest at all in what the other children were doing. They were vapour to her. Your child is not picking up on the behaviour of other children and following it.

You can ignore it all. It might work out for you. They may turn out just fine, or just a bit quirky. But I can assure you that if the wheels come off the bus (which it did for two of my DDs in year 10, both needed special school despite being cognitively able), you'll kick yourself. Hard.

OP will never accept it for fear of losing her husband. Her husband is more important to her than the wellbeing of her children. Her child will grow up struggling in a neurotypical world with their needs and differences unrecognised. They will resent her.

@LostandFounded I can remember picking DS up early from nursery when he became unwell, I can't remember what age he was but was in the youngest group room (so definitely under 2, probably less than 18 months) I was accompanied to the room rather than having DS brought to me. All the children were having a story read to them and they were all sitting listening to the nursery worker. I was so impressed. So at 3/3.5 I would certainly expect them to be able to cope with carpet time. Bearing in mind some children just turning 4 will start school and will be expected to sit nicely on the floor and be able to sit down whilst eating

A child standing up eating at the age your DC is will certainly trigger some concerns

People never believed my younger daughter was autistic. She was incredibly chatty to adults, who tended to think she was therefore highly sociable, so couldn't possibly be autistic. Her year 6 teacher said to me: "I don't believe she is autistic - all the other children will be sitting looking at their desks and she is laughing and joking with me" and that's the part other people have explained that she didn't moderate her behaviour to fit in with the other children. In fact she had no understanding of social hierarchies, which is sometimes a trait of autism, so she spoke to everyone like they were her age group. She used to speak to the postman, a visiting gas engineer, people on the bus like this. Everyone told me she was so sociable so she couldn't be autistic but they simply had no idea.

Yep, DD1's educational psychologist, when she was 3, wrote "I tried to observe her from a distance but this proved impossible".

DD2's teacher told me how amazingly easy she was to teach. "I show them a model and she has built it exactly right within minutes." I said "Does she ever use bricks that are a different colour to yours?" "No...." Thought not.

It is unusual for a three-year-old primarily to eat standing up. You need to know this, OP, because ‘normal for your house’ is not the same as ‘developing typically in line with age-related expectations.’

I do get what everyone is saying, but at the same time they are only 3 and it’s not like I am a first time mum and don’t know anything about child development. I’ve been through similar with my eldest, who has never been flagged for anything. My 3 year old is starting school next September so we will see if these things continue being an issue, I suspect they won’t be mentioned again.

My DS never responded to his name at 3. He didn't play with other children. He was diagnosed with autism.

Doesn't mean your child is autistic, but the things they mentioned are indicators of autism.

Those traits and features are quite clear indicators though, my child doesn’t have any of the stereotypical indicators or the ones you read about on the online assessments. I’ve done the questionnaires and the vast majority my child doesn’t have any not have.

But you've told us several indicators in your posts. ASD isn't about stereotype. It's about behaviours which indicate impairment of social function. Your DS is showing those signs. You are choosing to see them as 'normal' behaviour. You are being told they are not 'normal' behaviours.

Just tell them you'll keep an eye on it. Better that they tell you thrn thry don't.

Do you all stand up to eat? Surely you are role modelling sitting down while eating and your child will copy.

most children at nursery copy their peers so if one is sitting at a table , most will copy.

your comparisons of boys and girls are so wrong too, lots of boys don’t fidget and can sit and listen well, just as lots of girls fidget and don’t sit and listen well. All children are different but if you are being offered help, grab it with two hands.

I am parent to a teenager. I wish we had probed more when nursery suggested she was different to the other children. It was similar - in her own world, not playing with the other children, not listening. I just thought “I do that as well.”
This was more than 10 years ago though and we hadn’t heard of autism or adhd.

In my child's class they do stay and read. Whilst the other children are sitting and looking at books my son was looking under the toilets and playing with the toilet doors. No interest whatsoever in doing the same as the others. It is very obvious to anyone his autism.

If he is standing for his meal or not sitting at carpet time it will.

Hope you are going to be teaching your child to be school ready @LostandFounded

Yes as @Lougle says, NT children will adapt to the relevant setting. For example DC may push boundaries wrt food at home and refuse to eat xyz, and yet will eat it happily at nursery – when surrounded by peers and with less freedom to complain, as it were. That’s certainly a well-documented behaviour.

Many DC will typically hear stories when lying in bed; but they understand that when it is storytime at nursery, they need to sit with the others.

And is the eating standing up really “learned behaviour” @LostandFounded? Is that what you have modelled to him at home? I note you have not answered that question but if it is what you have done, it’s not usual.

Here are some of the behaviours by your DC that you have mentioned (including the two key traits mentioned by @Parkrunday which you then posted your DC does not have, not responding to his name and not playing with others when they ask):

• Doesn’t listen
• Doesn’t do what the other kids are doing when he is expected to
• Always on their own agenda
• Doesn’t answer or turn to their name
• Won’t sit down to eat even when they see everyone else doing so
• Won’t sit in circle for story even when all others do
• Only does things they are interested in
• Ignores other DC who want to play and are saying their name

All of those would be possible markers for ND tbh. They don’t necessarily mean it is the case but it’s worthy of investigation, in the opinion of the nursery – a group of professionals who see many DC each year (which you admit you don’t, hence perhaps struggling to understand how these behaviours are not usual in a 3.5yo).

Yes if he goes to school in a year and is standing up to eat his lunch then that will very much be flagged to you (at least I hope so)

But you have fixed ideas about what an autistic child is like. I have explained to you how people wouldn't believe my daughter was autistic, because she didn't meet their narrow idea of what a child with aitism looks like.

In fact she has autism with PDA - PDA is known as the "social autism" and those with it present slightly differently to other autistic children. There tends to be a lot of role playing for example, so it can look like they have good creative play skills, but it's basic, repetitive and doesn't develop.

I can think of several threads on mumsnet recently where parents of teens kept arguing against autism but later accepted it.

No it is 'normal' to adapt your behaviour according to where you are which your son is struggling to do.

Nursery talked to me at the end of the day again today. Is this actually unusual? They said my child was trying to get another’s attention and kept calling their name, but the other child ignored them and then eventually got angry and shouted at them and came and told the teacher. My child then did this again twice, they said they are worried as my child didn’t seem to understand the other child was annoyed and the other child ended up getting frustrated and upset. Is this so unusual it warrants a whole conversation at the end of the day? Really? I know I’ve been a bit dismissive of some people on here, but I’m not sure if nursery are now just picking on every single thing to make it a trait of something.