Would I be embarrassing myself to ask for a discount or would you try? (School fees)

[Inftsouthwest]

I’m in my 40s and me and my brother went a private school throughout, obviously many years ago. I also have some connections with the school as a couple of relatives (though now passed) used to work there.

Me and ex recently split and I have moved back to the area. Prior to split we were in a position to afford school fees with relative ease. Now we have split and with the added vat, it is going to be a struggle.

For context my take home pay is 4,500 and ex is 5,600.

I thought of going to the new headmaster and asking if he would honour some sort of discount for DD. Nothing major but perhaps even 10% or something.

Would I be completely embarrassing myself here? I know private school is a controversial topic but I absolutely adored school and feel strongly about the wider experiences young people have with private education. I know I can express this with passion, because it’s completely true for me that I really believe in the system.

We would probably send her regardless of a reduction but as above it would be hard.

At £10k a month with say £3k a month in school fees, uniform, lunch, trips etc, on paper the both of you should easily afford private school and should not be asking for discounts or bursaries. However, you have 2 x household expenses to consider.
For info, My school requires a combined income of £69k annually or less to be considered for a bursary and you need to state if you intend to apply for assistance during the admissions process. In my school's case, you wouldn't qualify so no point even applying. So first things first, find out what your school's criteria is for applying and then you and ex run the numbers. If you don't qualify, don't apply for assistance, suck it up and pay full fees. If you do qualify, apply and see if you get help but bare in mind, just because you meet the threshold, doesn't mean you will be granted assistance. There are a finite number of assisted places in every private school.
You say you will likely send your child regardless of discount. This suggests that you and ex can manipulate your double household income to get her there. This also suggests that you don't need a discount but want one as you said previously you like a bargain.
My advice therefore would be this: if you think you qualify for assistance and are happy to have your and ex husbands finances scrutinised in detail, apply for assistance but don't be upset if you don't get it. If however you do not want your finances scrutinised nor do you wish to curtail your current standard of living to qualify for assistance, don't apply for assistance and suck it up and pay full tuition. A 3rd option would be to ask the school about multiple years discounts eg pay 2 years together get 5% off. This is the most common way of getting a discount that works for you getting a discount but doesn't require your finances to be laid bare

@SabrinaThwaite well no because she will go regardless of a discount?

@dementedmummy thank you I am going to ask about discounts paying upfront, appreciate your input!

I work in this sector and yes you can do this and yes they will probably accept you at a discount. The majority of parents are on some kind of discount at most private schools these days (aside from the larger public schools). As you’ve seen from the thread, people have their own thoughts about whether this is in good taste or not, seeing as you clearly can afford it if you tighten up your budget a bit. But it’s parents like you who keep the sector going, tbh. However - one thing to bear in mind is the backgrounds of other children at the school. Depending on the setting, are they going to be similar to your kids or are your kids constantly going to feel like the odd ones out if they don’t go on 4+ holidays a year, huge birthday parties, £100+ on gifts for their friends etc. That’s the reality out there these days as VAT has pushed the more “normal” families out.

Not a problem as OP has said:

pretty much all my good friends are wealthy, I went to this school too and my family’s wider wealthier friends etc are all connected. I do see your point but dd won’t go without the extras.

So you don’t ‘need’ a discount.

You just want one, which you expect other parents to subsidise.

If you can afford it without a 10% discount (because you take home £10k a month between you and are sitting on half a million equity) then wouldn’t you feel like an arsehole taking a bursary when they’re designed for families who need them rather than just not wanting to have to consider giving up new car leases / holidays?

Your take home pay is over £120K between you and your ex. Even in London this would be at the very top end of potential bursary allocation for secondary schools and you'd be unlikely to get more than 5% or so. In fact, you can probably pay the fees if you want to. If your kids are bright or talented at something you may be able to get a scholarship for 5% regardless of bursaries.

Some schools won't necessarily expect you to remortgage, but those would be the big name schools in London, or boarding. They also wouldn't expect you not to have a holiday or a car (though maybe not a new car). They would expect you to be living in a house commensurate with your needs and not to be spending on stuff that is inessential.

If you will send your DD regardless of a discount, you probably won't get one. This seems to be primary so is basically pointless. And primary level bursaries/scholarships tend to be less generous than at secondary level. Save your money and use it for secondary school if you still think it is a good idea at that point. You could absolutely save quite a lot of future fees over the 7 years of primary school.

Having said all that, no harm in asking. Just be prepared to be turned down.

You are well off compared to lots of people. You just aren’t wealthy enough to pay for private school.

I think you have too much money and assets to be eligible. You have enough money to pay so if you want it you should pay. I would like my kids to go but can’t afford it so they can’t. I definitely wouldn’t expect the other family’s some with significantly less income than yours there to pay for them.
Go and view and see if there are any discounts available such as paying in advance you can ask her dad to help pay or Grandparents for early inheritance. Or for them to directly help with fees.
Take into consideration that the uniform is more expensive as are the trips you will also need more school holidays childcare they get about 16 weeks a year.

Only household income is taken into account for bursaries so what your ex earns is irrelevant, assuming you no longer reside together. If he pays you CMS or you have income from stocks, shares, dividends, rental property etc, it all counts but you may get a discount. What's the worst they can say? Apply!

Just pay the fees if you want your child to go to the school this much. What the private school governor said up thread is spot on.
Or apply for a bursery and prepare yourself for a close forensic analysis of your and ex-partner’s finances.

@TwinklySquid as you can see that’s not the opinion of many on the thread.

So if you need 2.5k off per annum as she's starting prep, wth is your plan as she goes into secondary? The fees leap is massive....

My children went to private school from age 5. However, our circumstances changed when they were older and the fees were drastically more expensive. I wanted to keep them where they were, so I swallowed my pride and had a meeting with the Headmaster. My kids were academically bright and involved in school life and extra-curricular activities, so this helped with my request for a 50% scholarship for both. The only downside to this though is they HAD to super-involved and visible with all kinds of activities, even when studying for finals.

Some private school parents are uber wealthy. They can afford the fees without out any compromise to lifestyle. Others have fees paid by grandparents or from inheritance, so whilst less wealthy, they don't need to adjust day-to-day lifestyle.

Other parents make huge sacrifices to afford the fees. Pretty much anyone on a bursary falls in this group. Even if they are paying e.g. 50% fees, it will still be a stretch, requiring them to focus on fees first, and having far, far less in terms of luxuries. The challenge often comes in the definition of luxury vs. essential.

It sounds like you live in a privileged world amongst wealthy people. You may not be as wealthy as some of your friends since splitting, but you are objectively wealthy. Yes you now have to run 2 households, but you are still each bringing in a large wage. You have equity in your house and presumably enjoy some of the finer things in life.

When we got our mortgage, we were asked 'is there anything you wouldn't give up to pay the mortgage?'. You could apply a similar question here. I look at my life and my answer would be there is quite a lot I don't want to give up. I don't feel we are particularly extravagant, but we spend £3-5k a year on holidays/weekends away, several hundred a month on kids extracurriculars, have days out in school holidays, eat out once or twice a month, have enough money to say yes to things e.g. buying items, spontaneous trips etc. I don't want to give that up, so opted for state. Possibly we could afford fees if we cut back on all that and remortgaged, although less likely with 2 children.

To me this is where the opposing views of you can/can't afford it come from. I didn't realise at the start of the thread you were looking at prep. It's a long journey and less scholarships/bursaries tend to be available.

Why does everyone want something for nothing. If your ex is very much involved with his daughter, why isn’t he helping with her school fees, as before ?

OP, if you’ve decided that your DD will be attending the school whether you get a discount or not, then clearly you know that you can afford it.

This is the case across the board for everybody seeking some form of benefits or charity because they claim they can't afford to pay for things themselves.

If you were applying for universal credit - which most recipients need to be able to keep the house warm, the kids clothed and food on the table; not just because they fancy sending them to a posh, prestigious school rather than a normal one which they feel is beneath them - you would be turned down if you had £16,000 of savings, let alone your very comfortable monthly income.

Most food banks require a referral or proof of genuine need before people can use them - and even then, you can only have what they've got in - if you want to get the exact food that you want without anybody asking questions or for justification, you have to go to a shop and pay the required price for it.

This is the same principle as the above, but just a version for privileged people who think they still aren't privileged enough.

This seems to me to be a classic case of Main Character Syndrome.

Even the talk of somebody 'honouring' a discount for a luxury that most people couldn't afford and nobody actually needs - when you're privileged enough that you can afford it, but just feel that you're too special important to be expected to pay the going rate - sounds phenomenally entitled.

How would you feel if your employer asked you to 'honour' a 10% reduction in your salary - because although the company can afford to pay you as agreed, they've just decided that they'd rather pay you less and get 'better value' from you?

should you have been working in private schools if this is your political attitude?!

Why not? A job is a job. I have worked at all types of schools. Kids need teaching, no matter the parents. And it is nice to teach where the resources are plentiful and the building is not falling down. Maybe that's why I get annoyed with the private-school entitlement. Not the concept of private schools themselves.

No...it wasn't the easier classes. A-level science. (Although kids were often of lesser ability than the grammar school i worked in.)

You were right though I didn't read the whole thread. I didn't realise that you could afford it. You are just wondering if you could to try it on.

My advice is to add up price up to year 5 or 6 (prep basically) adding some for annual fee increases.
Do the same for senior/secondary (year 7 -13).

Then you'll have a feel for the size of the investment. You can just think about the cost per month or per term which never sounds as bad.

Have a look at your local primary/ies. You might be pleasantly surprised and it's fine to move if it doesnt work out. It's probably less scary for you to move that direction too if you haven't been to state yourself. Lots move into y6 of the independent locally before moving up to y7.

Smaller isn't always better. Friendship dynamics can be challenging in older prep and a bigger school can help.

The extras can sting a bit. Not really because they are unaffordable compared to the fees but because they further eat into the fun money and the buffer money that makes life less stressful.

I remember looking at a bill with extras for trips, music lessons, meals and £10 for a compulsory homework diary. Of course we could afford the diary but but but...

We've used every type of school as a family. One of my DC would say the very best teacher was head of English at the comp, only narrowly beating a truly inspiring History teacher at the independent. Art teachers amazing at both. Geography really good at independent as more freedom in early secondary. Worst teacher was at the independent and wins that title by falling asleep often.

Best things about the independent were the choral music (difficult to replicate in state unless you live by a cathedral without attached school), the quality of the food and the amount of exercise (not sure DC would agree with the exercise bit).

Worst thing about prep according to my friends is the amount of prep (homework). You're paying the fees and then having to supervise or support homework in precious family time, more than most state primaries.

The bright, talented kids are every bit as bright and talented in state as in independent. Every bit as motivated, as nice and as well supported by parents. Unless your state options are truly, truly diabolical but I suspect not.

PP made a valid point about planning in a bit of flex in case of future siblings or step siblings. You could save the secondary fees while she is at state primary and then you'd have security knowing whatever happens work and health wise, the fees are covered. Some schools offer a bigger discount for more years in advance. Then if something went wrong you wouldnt be desperately hoping your child was seen as adding value to school life (arts, academics, sports) to merit a significant discount.

Last thing, in my experience, you need to direct queries about fees, discounts and scholarships to admissions and the bursar. The head may have some influence but the schools are businesses and rightly have to balance the books.

Sorry that's very long! Good luck.

@Inftsouthwest

I've been down the bursaries plus academic scholarships route with mine, and still it involved sacrifices. The usual old standards: no flash holidays, pretty much no "abroad" except France on the cheap, or in UK (yes I'll admit it, "second home"), ancient cars.

You want to send your daughter to the same public (or private) school you attended. Even if your parents paid full fees for you, you (and your parents) surely must at least have heard of scholarships, and bursaries?

The milieu you describe living in - all rich (or, as you say, "wealthy"), all public school - they should be able to advise you, having heard about (or even met, or even know well) children on bursaries and scholarships, and the parents of those children?

The fees you mention, £25K PA, are pretty reasonable. Perhaps the school has a trust fund that allows it to keep fees low, and in that case your confidence that it will never go under is probably justified.

You can definitely afford the fees, especially if you remortgage, even if you don't. In my case, I used inherited money, disclosed to and agreed with the Bursar as a payment plan over the (long, but wonderful) years, which was equivalent in value to selling or remortgaging.

If you want the school in effect to give you money, you have to be transparent about your assets and income, and major expenditures. You have to fill in the forms. You have to establish a respectful but friendly relationship with the Bursar. You know you can't just say "I want discount, so gimme discount."

You're unlikely to get a bursary because of your income. But whether you're successful or not, to read the post in which you said you would use the money you "save" (by taking the school's money, other parents' money!) to give your daughter special experiences, or something, I found repulsive, frankly.

For an academic scholarship, obviously it will help you if your daughter has academic ability and shows the potential to bump up the school's Oxbridge success rate. But that would be at secondary school level, and it sounds from your posts as if she's much younger than that, possibly pre-prep?

If she is still quite little, this is what I suggest you do:

From your posts, I'd guess you live in what some people on Mumsnet call an "affluent area"? Make plans now to get her into your local (no doubt charming) state primary school.

Girls' public schools intake is at age 11 (unlike a lot of boys' schools, whose intake is at age 13, which you already know, of course). Meaning that she won't necessarily be "behind" at intake.

Make an appointment with your chosen school now - ask to meet with the Admissions Tutor to talk about secondary age entry. Ask what level of achievement the school expects at age 11. Do they expect French? Ask if there's an entrance exam? Presumably there is?

Use all that lolly you'll have saved on pre and prep fees not for "special experiences" but to hire a tutor recommended by the school (if they will recommend) or ask your rich public school pals for recommendations.

But, OP, I'm afraid I'm going to be that horrible, awful person now.

You're making a ton of money, so well done you.

That aside, you've come out of this supposedly wonderful public/private school using "Me" as the subject of a sentence: "Me and my brother went", "Me and my ex recently split".

Is any of this real? If it is, and that's really the school you're hankering after, it ain't worth it.

@AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle well I wouldn’t agree to that as I would have already been working for a set pay so far. But what you say is actually just business… come pay review time they may not increase in line with inflation which would essentially be paying less for my work. This happens often to people and they have the choice to stay or find another job.

So I guess I see this as business. They’ve got fees. I want a discount and they can accept or deny.

@Greenandyellowday i’m not sure what you’re suggesting really? I have no knowledge of bursaries as my family didn’t use them. I assumed we wouldn’t be eligible until this thread.

I presume your comment about grammar is to suggest private education was wasted on me. I actually read literature and left with a first. But even if I hadn’t, it wouldn’t matter. I don’t care about DD’s grades, I care about her enjoying her childhood as much as possible.

And no my wealthy friends don’t talk about bursaries so this topic has never come up!