AIBU to think neighbours should not be naked in their garden?

[babypickles]

For context: Our house is on a new build estate and the houses are pretty close together. It’s fairly easy to see into neighbours gardens because the trees etc are not well established yet.

AIBU to say my neighbours shouldn’t be naked in their garden. They are often out in the garden totally naked taking photos of themselves. They have parties quite often and it’s not uncommon for them and friends to be out in the garden naked / using the hot tub etc.

Am I being a killjoy ? Seems excessive to me.

I think the world would be a much more healthy place if everyone saw real naked bodies on a daily basis.

Regardless of whether or not they wanted to?

I'm actually starting to find parts of this thread somewhat disturbing in terms of how many people think it's fine if children see naked strangers. It sounds like if some pps had their way none of us would have any say in the matter, and could be confronted by swinging dicks and jiggling arses at any moment while going about our daily business. No bloody thank you. Not wanting that isn't the same thing as being a prude.

Exactly this. It's the cult of the individual writ large, and I agree Thatcherism has a lot to answer for in this regard.

I wonder if any of the 'it takes a village to raise a child' brigade are among those on here advocating for wholesale nudity, and if so, whether they'd stand by that if their children were having to see their neighbours with everything on display whenever they popped over to borrow a cup of sugar. Mind you, not much would surprise me after reading some of the comments on here.

How are they ‘weirdos’? 🤔 Surely by any logic it’s more of a weird concept to put on an item of clothing specifically for it to get wet in a pool or hot tub? It makes much more sense to swim naked, as bare skin dries much quicker afterwards than a soggy wet costume, not to mention more comfortable, and more hygienic too, as swimwear harbours more sweat and bacteria than bare skin.

I expect the poster thinks they’re weirdos because in UK culture we don’t sit in the bath in the nude with our friends. Only partners. As I’m sure you know.

In your particular culture perhaps, but please don’t assume you’re speaking for all of us. If that were the case then naturist beaches, clubs and communities wouldn’t exist would they?

Clearly, I am talking about the mainstream British culture, not fringe sub-cultures with tiny numbers of adherents, who hold their events in specific places and contexts.

Do naturist clubs exist? Yes. Do swinging clubs exist? Yes.

Is it common and normal for people to sit around naked in public outside of those exceptions (that are usually held in private)? No.

It isn’t usual to see people in the nude in overlooked suburban back gardens in the UK. It never has been.

I’m discussing the actual scenario in the OP, not some hypothetical scenarios the OP isn’t asking about.

Regardless of whether or not they wanted to?

That's a specious argument and frankly something that goes back about 50 years. Once upon a time people didn't want to see "cripples" or "disfigured" etc, and we used to hide "odd people" away in institutions ... not because they were dangerous but because others liked to pretend they didn't exist - "offending right-minded people" is a phrase that comes to mind.

Quite frankly there's a lot of people, places, and situations I don't want to see but they're part of the world just as I am. I'm grounded in reality not a fantasy version of it.

It borders on fascist to start dictating to others what they can do to suit your view of the world, when they are not actually causing you harm - just offending sensibilities that have been bred into them by hiding things away from them.

According to recent extensive research by IPSOS, some 6.75 million people in the UK identify as naturists or nudists. That’s 1 in 7 people. So naturism isn’t some “fringe sub-culture”. It’s mainstream and perfectly normal. It would seem your sweeping generalisations about “UK culture” are somewhat erroneous wouldn’t it?

Put another way - 86% of the UK population AREN’T nudists and obviously don’t think it’s weird to wear clothes in their back garden 😂

So just 8-9% of the population go to nightclubs. Would you describe them as a “fringe sub-culture”?

I didn’t use that term but a quick google has told me that a “fringe subculture” is a group defined by their intense isolation from, or direct opposition to, established cultural norms. I can’t think what established cultural norm night clubbing is in opposition to so, no?

So clearly you’ve just disproved your own argument. If 1 in 7 people identify as naturists then obviously they’re not isolated from cultural norms are they? If you can see seven back gardens from your house, by simple logic you could reasonably expect to see one naked person.

That’s true. Sure why don’t you pop to Tesco naked and test your theory? If 1 in 7 people are naturists and there are at least 14 people in your local Tesco you can reasonably expect to see another naked person besides yourself. Let us know how you get on.

I don't think that's a useful comparison at all. Not remotely the same thing. And even if it was, I could just as well argue that it 'borders on fascist' to suggest we should let everyone start walking around stark naked, particularly if you're advocating for it among children too. We all know there are bad people out there.

But aside from that, those who just don't want to be confronted with strangers' exposed genitals while going about our day are entitled to have that respected and are, I believe, still in the majority in this country. If people want to walk around naked there are plenty of places they can do that. Most people don't.

Tesco is not a public space.

It is a private space, with customer behaviour subject to Tesco's own policies.

If a private garden is overlooked, then by definition it isn't private. Exhibitionism is a thing. I'm sure most naturists aren't exhibitionists, but a few are and children deserve to be protected from them.

In OP's case, it definitely sounds like these people are getting some sort of kick out of the thought that their neighbours might see them.

I don't think that's a useful comparison at all.
Well obviously you don't. Since it highlights the fallacy in your thinking.

Not remotely the same thing.
It's not enough to just assert that. It's exactly the same thing - hiding people away because you don't want to look at them or acknowledge their existence except in their own hidden space.

And even if it was, I could just as well argue that it 'borders on fascist' to suggest we should let everyone start walking around stark naked, particularly if you're advocating for it among children too.
Note your use of the word let. Not the word force.
You would force people to do as you want, not permit them to make their own personal choice.

Fascism: prioritizes unity of the nation or race over individual liberties. Typically using centralised control to achieve total societal compliance

We all know there are bad people out there.
And your point is - other than "will nobody think of the children"?

What percentage of (actual) crimes against children have been performed by people who were naked in public?

But aside from that, those who just don't want to be confronted with strangers' exposed genitals while going about our day are entitled to have that respected and are, I believe, still in the majority in this country.
No - just no. You say "entitled" and that's exactly what your stance is. I'd like not to have to be confronted by people with body odour - but, guess what, I don't get to dictate their bathroom routines. Your entitlement never trumps others liberties. Beware, for someday you'll find other people want to stop you doing things you find perfectly reasonable.

Oh - and the only time the majority matters is in a vote, or when you get pitchforks out.

If people want to walk around naked there are plenty of places they can do that.
Yes - they can do it in their home. They can do it in public as well.
Why won't you accept that?
Why do you think your personal preferences should override the law?

Most people don't.
And they don't have to. That's how libertarianism works.
Most people also don't play pool, poker, etc ... should we stop the people that do?

It doesn't matter if a garden is overlooked or not. It is still a private space.
You are not entitled to go into someone's garden without their permission.

I think you are confusing secluded with private. The law does not.

In OP's case you have zero knowledge of the situation - zero facts other than OPs reporting of it, and she has not intimated that they're being exhibitionist, nor that they are getting a kick out of it.

Making up facts to bolster your argument is not nice.

Exhibitionism is a thing. I'm sure most naturists aren't exhibitionists, but a few are and children deserve to be protected from them

100% agree. But...
Exhibitionism is considered a crime when it involves exposing your genitals if the act is done with the intent to cause alarm, distress, or sexual gratification.

Should we stop people playing baseball because some bad people hit others with a baseball bat? Shouldn't children be protected against being hit with a baseball bat????

No need to get defensive. But you are missing my point.

1 in 7 (if accurate) is a definite minority. But that’s by the by - it doesn’t matter if 50% of the population are naturists, it still isn’t a cultural norm to be in the nude in an overlooked suburban garden.

They get off on the fact that they can be seen. You should be able to go out in your garden or look out your window without seeing someone naked, it's just common sense.

'Just don't look' is insulting. How about 'just keep your weird naked parties inside the house'?

Where does this kind of thinking end? In a successful society personal freedoms need to be balanced with consideration for others. My kids love to play in the garden and would happily be outside at 6am on a weekend having the time of their lives - loudly. This wouldn’t be a crime. It’s their garden. It’s our private space. Technically they have every “right” to play in their own garden. But what kind of parent would I be if I didn’t teach them that we live as part of a community? We have neighbours who probably don’t want to listen to them playing outside at 6am on a Saturday and we need to be considerate of those around us. Not because it’s a legal mandate but because it’s basic consideration for others and we should be mindful of what might bother or upset others.
It’s the same principle - how can a grown ass adult not understand that even though they have the right to be naked in their own garden, if it’s directly overlooked by their neighbours they should be considerate of the fact their neighbours might not want to see them naked. Particularly if there are kids in the house?! If you want to be naked in your garden buy a house where you’re not so obviously exposed and overlooked. Same way that if I wanted to be able to let my kids scream at 6am in the garden I should have bought a house where we weren’t overheard.

YANBU. It's disgusting and pervy if children can see them. Loads of 'cool' musmnetters here doesn't mind naked men and women in full view of their children apparently.

Where does this kind of thinking end? In a successful society personal freedoms need to be balanced with consideration for others.

I agree totally.
But to your question... ultimately the thinking ends with the law (as amended from time to time) because we all have different opinions. The law arbitrates between the differing freedoms that people need.

My kids love to play in the garden and would happily be outside at 6am on a weekend having the time of their lives - loudly. This wouldn’t be a crime.

There are laws on noise (EPA 1990 and the Noise Act 1996). The Noise Act restricts noise between 11pm and 7am to 34dBA which is actually very quiet. So, sorry, your children would actually be breaking the law at 6am. Or rather you would be for allowing them to.

It’s their garden. It’s our private space. Technically they have every “right” to play in their own garden.
They do - but they can't keep punting balls over the fence, nor entering your neighbours property to retrieve them. But they have an absolute right to scream and shout as children do. Others might hate it, but I can't see people here wanting to ban that activity because they're "entitled to peace and quiet"

But what kind of parent would I be if I didn’t teach them that we live as part of a community?
You'd be a bad parent, and I'm sure you're not. And it's admirable that you're bringing up thoughtful children.

But OP's neighbours could be loud and obnoxious all day - swearing and having barbecues. People would mostly be saying you have bad neighbours and just have to move, not change the law.

I'm not saying that the current situation doesn't present OP with an issue to manage (communicating with children for instance). But the hysterical reaction to nudity amazes me. These people apparently have fences etc and can only be seen from upstairs windows. I'm sure the novelty will wear off quickly and the children/family will just find an amusing label for them.

“the hysterical reaction to nudity amazes me“

You’re amazed? You’re amazed that a sexual abuse victim being unwillingly exposed to a man’s penis could become “hysterical”? You’re amazed that I wouldn’t want my 4 year old daughter to see our neighbours naked during a time in her own development where we’re trying to teach her appropriate physical boundaries and which body parts are private? You’re amazed that some people just simply don’t feel comfortable seeing strangers naked despite the fact that seeing strangers naked is a total cultural abnormality for most people?!