To be fed up of hearing 'just get on with it'?

[glitterpaperchain]

This kind of 'just get on with it' RE the heat is all over Facebook. People talking about the heat in 1976 and saying 'we just got on with it' or 'we muddled through' (as if people didn't die as a result of that heatwave)

My issue is - shouldn't we as a society be aiming higher than just getting on with things and muddling through? We should be campaigning for better infrastructure, better working practices.

I just think we have all this technology, we're supposed to be a rich country, let's fight to make things better rather than just managing. What happened to the spirit of the first union workers who demanded better conditions and rights? I want to see that spirit back.

I agree, minimising it is a bigger problem than overstating it. The only reason I’m responding is that I tried to post something that was factual about the scale of the change, only to be told I was being ignorant, and rebutted by something that was clearly false about extreme winters.

It's the people in the 30-37C zones, inland, in built up areas, in accommodation that has no air flow or shade and small spaces that heat up fast and do not go below 35C during the night - these are the people really suffering

Exactly and it starts to affect you psychologically too.

I was in my first job during the 1976 heatwave, still living at home. I remember it being hard to sleep sometimes but other than that I don’t remember a thing except drinking outside a pub at 10pm and thinking how unusual it was for it to still be so warm. I’m not a sun worshipper so it’s not like I enjoy being out in the sun. But I don’t remember people moaning. We just lived in dread of being moved to water standpipes. The minister for rain was appointed and almost immediately there was a thunderstorm- I was coming home from work and that was a wonderful moment. We definitely do need better water conservation and aircon, especially in hospitals and schools.

It's was very dry heat in 1976.

We have very high humidity now. Totally different kettle of fish. Not comparable at all.

Google 'wet bulb effect'

I've just "got on with stuff" today.

Walk to the shops to drop off a parcel. Walk round Aldi to get some ice lollies and salad.

Then a stroll back home. It's quite warm but walked in the shade with a hat on. The breeze was quite nice.

Do you have a point?

First, to quote, you wrote “It's an average, with much colder winters and much hotter summers.”

Second, of course there are still cold snaps, but as the article you posted states, in the same way that winters are milder now, cold spells are on average less extreme too. We’re just not getting the frequency and severity of cold spells we got in, say, the 1980s.

I’m not sure why you’re still trying to argue this! Are you one of those people who have to win every argument, regardless of the facts?

Yes...much colder than the average temperature

I'm not sure what your problem with me clarifying my argument is? It's not my fault you misunderstood it

I think people aren’t doing themselves many favours tbh. There’s so many quick(ish) things which could be done - natural materials for clothing, blinds and shades on houses, water conservation, keeping pocket gardens vs driveways, and grass and trees vs astroturf etc…

The science seems to point to increased frequency and extremes of temperature - so yes some infrastructure needs to catch up, but until it does there needs to be some measures where public services and transport don’t completely collapse.

I don't understand older people who want other people to suffer just because they did (in so many ways, not the heat specifically). Some older people seem to be saying it was no big deal in 1976, but my parents have always talked about that summer and how bad it was.

Yes exactly. I'm not really interested in whether it was technically hotter in 1976 one time, the point is, surely we should want good things, for life to keep improving.

'Things were bad in the past and we managed so it's ok for things to be bad now' is a terrible perspective in my opinion

Who are these "older people" who want others to suffer please?

I am older and suffering. I don't wish harm on younger people, I admire them.

Actually I think this is a good note to end on as this is the kind of discussion I had in mind when I started this thread, but I spoke too much about the heat so managed so not make my own point clear! Thanks all, it's been exhausting 👍

My mum's friends and relatives on Facebook for a start, and a few women I know through business networking saying these sort of things on social media. All of them are in their 60s & 70s.
Not just on the heat though, but on how things used to be better. My mum would disagree, and is probably like yourself. My mum grew up with a widowed mother, with 5 small children, pre-benefits and council housing. My nan worked two jobs, no money for childcare (or much at all really). But my nan did her best and certainly wouldn't complain that we have a better way of life due to the changes that have come into place.
Specifically with the heat, the women I know who are saying "we coped, get on with it" would have been children or teenagers in 76, and not so vulnerable to the heat.

I don’t know what argument you’re trying to make now!

You said we were having more extreme winters, and that this enabled us to have more extreme summers all whilst the average was showing a more modest increase than we might suppose.

I disagreed and provided facts showing that we were actually having less extreme winters.

You posted an article showing that we had less extreme winters with fewer extreme cold spells, supporting my point and contradicting your own.

You then have responded by saying that we still have some cold snaps… which I’m not disputing. But I have no idea how milder colds snaps in winter translates into having extreme hot spells that exceed the average temperature increase - it makes no sense.

It might make sense if we had more extreme cold spells than we did in the past, but we don’t!

What exactly is your argument?… because I don’t think you actually know what your it is any more, just that your determined to win it!

You took issue with me saying that we can expect extreme temperatures to be about 2c higher on average as that’s how much, roughly, temperatures have increased by.

You argued that the extremes are higher than that because we are getting more extreme winters…. For example, hot spells are say 5c degrees hotter but winter cold spells are 3c colder, which is consistent with a 2c rise.

However, there’s no evidence that winters are getting more extreme temperature-wise, on the contrary!

I would have left it if you hadn’t insisted on how misinformed, and even selfish, I was for just trying to be fact based…. All whilst you were peddling errors that you confidently pontificated as facts!

Try googling the Dunning-Kruger effect….i think it applies here.

My generation (I'm 77) certainly don't begrudge younger generations their better way of life than we had. I'm thrilled that my adult children and grandchildren have a standard of living we could never have aspired to, because everything moves on just as my generation had better lives than my grandparents who were born in early 1900s. Yet they did 'get on' with stuff because there was no other option as you've proved in your post. It's a different mindset that's all. All the sympathy in the world won't turn the sun down today.

I agree totally with what you are saying here.
It would be great if more people could embrace the idea that making things easier for people should be something to aim for, rather than the assumption that everyone should be made to get on with it no matter what.

It would be great if people could say "that was a difficult time for me, I wonder how we could make that better for others who have to do it?" instead of "That was difficult, I want everyone else to have to do it as well"
Thankfully there are innovators and changemakers out there, creating and inventing.

And before anyone needs to spend a penny of money on it, I'm just talking about attitudes and conversations - the way people in the real world talk. If I said to my friends "gosh, I'm struggling with the heat" there would (and actually have been) a bunch of suggestions of things I could do. And not one of them involved getting a grip, or just get on with it.

Oh @Justveryveryangry , just go and get an ice lolly and cool off already

Things were better and now they aren't and I'm old.
That doesn't mean I want others to suffer.

Well i guess SH flats that go up to 43c and cause heatstroke is an upgrade from just incinerating us!!!!

I totally agree with you. The difficulty comes back to one of this countries underlying issues affecting us for decades - since Thatcher privatised infrastructure and sold off our infrastructure assets and housing stock the issues have manifested tenfold. Yes I can see the point that the infrastructure was not great in the 70's and 80's, i think the idea was that marketisation would result in bring in investment. But those at the top being greedy selfish B;s meant that instead of re-investing in improvements these greedy gits just stripped out the assets and made themselves wealthy. Its continued ever since and now we are left with even worst crumbling infrastructure. The issue is once again about the wealthy vs the working man / woman. No one wants to spend money on the cattle (us) as this pulls away from their profits.

Only when people wake up to this and stop 'getting on with it' will anything change. The wealthy B's dont care one jot of 150 people die in each heatwave as long as it doesn't imapact them in their air conditioned suites.

So yes - more people need to demand things are improved within our infrastructure. Folk can write to their MP, start or sign online petitions to get enough signatures to be debated in parliament, join or support a campaign group (even if not in a union), do posts on social medial and generally increase pressure those ways.

Schools and healthcare buildings need to be improved first, along with public transport - so that we can keep on moving in heatwaves. Followed by homes and offices. Technology has improved so things such as air to air units do cooling and heating and are a singular install. They could be run on solar power from panels if installed and then they wouldnt have running costs. But all of that takes money. These should also receive grants for going into homes and planning permissions be loosened to allow them.

Enough is enough !

Ah yes the cunties. Not the way to get people on your side.

@Justveryveryangry Rather It’s a catastrophic thing that will lead to the collapse of society in decades if not reversed. A top heavy population pyramid with far more 80 year olds than 20!year olds would be a disaster!

First of all, that's rubbish. Second, the vast majority of people don't live to 80.

It's clear to see that OP has firm non-negotiable opinions on previous generations. I can see it as galling for her when the older generation point out that in 1976 there was a heatwave of similar conditions.

It was a heatwave also of different circumstances.
OP talks about humidity, as opposed to dryness etc.,
Boomers mention length, weeks and weeks of it as opposed to 4, or 5 days.

This is turning into a point scoring debate instigated by OP against who is/was having it worst.
Well sorry, Boomers win hands down, because they have been through one, and are now going through another.
I'm not that bothered though, like most of my generation we just get on with it.
As I'm sure most of all other generations do. And all the griping in the world will not turn the sun down today. (pinched from Pepperlee) 👌