To be fed up of hearing 'just get on with it'?

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This kind of 'just get on with it' RE the heat is all over Facebook. People talking about the heat in 1976 and saying 'we just got on with it' or 'we muddled through' (as if people didn't die as a result of that heatwave)

My issue is - shouldn't we as a society be aiming higher than just getting on with things and muddling through? We should be campaigning for better infrastructure, better working practices.

I just think we have all this technology, we're supposed to be a rich country, let's fight to make things better rather than just managing. What happened to the spirit of the first union workers who demanded better conditions and rights? I want to see that spirit back.

You've again continued to just talk about averages. Eg you said

Global temperatures have risen by 1.5-2c…. That means that 32c becomes 34c…

So a mean average isn't always the best way to describe events. For example, if in May suddenly one day was 2 degrees then the next day it was 30 degrees. It would be accurate to say that the average temperature of those 2 days was 16 degrees, which is a pretty normal temperature for May. But it wouldn't accurately portray the reality.

So when you say, oh global temperatures have risen by 2 degrees that means 32 becomes 34, it doesn't show the reality of what that means in terms of extreme weather, like heat waves, as well as storms.

I suspect it's a lot of the same people who said covid was just a cold.

Not very well educated on the issues, and not very imaginative.

I remember all the 'all you have to do is stay at home, WTF is the problem?' people during covid who most commonly were furloughed with houses with gardens. It was quite a nice break for many and they lacked the empathy to wonder how it was for people who were single, or in bad relationships, living in flats, had newborns, had disabled family members they were living with or very small kids going stir-crazy in flats.

Your theory would hold if we were seeing very cold temperatures to offset the very hot temperatures, but I don’t see any evidence of that.

I'm not selfish. The point I'm making is that big, community type activites are a thing of the past. It's all about the individual amd money. Farmig out services, bidding for momey and so on.

There are cold equivalents to heatwaves.

"A coldwave is a period of cold weather, lasting for several days or even weeks, where temperatures are lower than average for that time of year. Like how a heatwave is a period of abnormally hot weather usually lasting several days."

https://ncas.ac.uk/what-does-climate-change-mean-for-cold-weather/

I agree.

I do wonder if those saying they are enjoying this heat and having BBQ's, going to work, the 'it's hot but it's fine, it's only a few days' folks, are perhaps not actually in the hottest zones, but on the edges at a manageable 29-31C or lower, or on the coast which is actually 4-5 degrees lower than a mile inland, areas which are dropping to 19C or below at night. Or in airy houses with air flow and shade.

It's the people in the 30-37C zones, inland, in built up areas, in accommodation that has no air flow or shade and small spaces that heat up fast and do not go below 35C during the night - these are the people really suffering.

People are so quick to assume that because their situation is manageable - everyone else must be weak and whinging over nothing.

Humberside and East Anglia are going to get the very worst of it today.

I feel very very very lucky that I'm by the coast - we seem to have gotten away with the very worst despite being in the red zone for 4 days. 1 mile inland is a totally different picture.

That's because you were a child.
The days and nights were hotter and it lasted for weeks and weeks.
I was there.

So should we be out working in the community and getting on with keeping everything going, or should we be staying at home looking after ourselves?

I was there too!! I wasn't a very young child.

Yes, my bedroom hasn't gone below 32 degrees in the night for days and it is stifling. A fan makes no difference.

Yes, but your argument is that we’re having extremely hot summers that are MORE extreme than the annual average temperature increase in temperature, because we’re having more extreme cold winters to offset them.

But as the evidence I’ve posted shows, that just isn’t true. Our winters are warmer too! Yes, we still have cold snaps, but they’re generally less intense and severe than they were a few decades ago.

That doesn’t negate the fact that we’re facing brutally hot conditions at the moment, and that these conditions are more frequent than they used to be, but you’re over-exaggerating and not basing your views on facts.

I get it. You’re rightly concerned about the situation and want to make your point as forcefully as possible, but it’s counterproductive if you “over egg the pudding” and you just give ammunition to climate change deniers (which I’m not).

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In 1976 heatwave thousands of people died, there were extensive forest fires, a huge drought, water was rationed in many areas and crops failed so food prices went up by 12%.

All temperatures seen in 1976 have been exceeded since.

Yes, that is my memory of it. I don't remember suffering from the heat as much then as now. That could be because I was young and healthy but also it wasn't as humid.

Honestly I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me. What exaggerations have I made?

Exactly this. This is the part many people aren't acknowledging.

The humidity level is what determines the survival rate of humans in high temperatures.

Humans can survive in very high temperatures if the air is very dry (eg sub-Saharan Africa) as the air can absorb water (sweat) and this assists the human body to wick heat away from the skin and regulate temperature very effectively.
Once the humidity rises to levels which mean the surrounding hot air is saturated, no more water can be absorbed and the human regulatory system cannot work. Water is not wicked away from the skin at all. The body cannot regulate heat at all.

1976 was exceptionally dry heat.

What we have now is exceptionally humid heat.

It's very dangerous but people just aren't getting that part for some reason.

Of course 1976 was extremely hot, but as my previous posts have shown there have been many prolonged hotter summers since 2000, and many individual days with hotter temperatures than the 1976 record.

The reason 1976 sticks in the memory is because it was such an outlier in the 1970s! Today 1976 would be just another hot summer, and not a particularly extreme one at that.

Why? Because you replied to one of my posts saying: “If you're going to take such a selfish point at least don't be ignorant of the facts”

I could hardly let that lie given you then followed up with something that was completely wrong about extreme winters, and then posted fact after fact demonstrating I wasn’t actually being “ignorant of the facts”.

If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. It’s no big deal. It’s good to be able to adjust your views when presented with new facts…. so I’m not sure why you feel the need to insist “black is white” even when presented with a slew of credible facts. It’s exactly what climate-deniers do! You just undermine your own argument and people see that it’s based on feeling not fact.

Yes, climate change is a big issue. Exaggerating it doesn’t help though.

It’s a bit like if I went out and got drunk having had a bottle of vodka, but then I insisted that I actually had got drunk after drinking two bottles! It’s just unnecessary and undermines credibility.

It’s infuriating that so many of those on both sides of the “argument” aren’t actually interested in the facts at all.

It’s partly why the country is in a mess… we vote for politicians based on feeling and gut, rather than any real appreciation of the issues and then wonder why things are in a mess. It’s why Trump’s in power.

It’s a bit like trying being a doctor who pure instinct to treat a patient and then wondered why the patient died.

What was completely wrong about extreme winters? The link to the article I sent?

My other memory of 76 is going on holiday to a hotter country and finding the weather much more pleasant than in the UK. This was before air con obviously but their buildings were cooler, shade everywhere etc

Did you actually read the article? It supports my earlier posts that winters are getting milder not more severe!

To pick out a paragraph from it:

“There are far fewer coldwave days than in the past. I recently found that Europe is experiencing more than five days less of cold events each decade. This reduction is because of global warming effects, which are causing these cold events to be less severe than they were 40 years ago.”

There’s nothing shameful about with being wrong, and being wrong doesn’t make you stupid. I’m frequently wrong! But digging your heels in to try and prove a point when all the facts suggest otherwise… well, i’ll let you work out how that comes across.

I would argue that minimising the effect of climate change is the problem.

It was the length of it

Ok...I never said winters aren't on average getting milder. I said there are extremes at both ends. ie cold snaps. So averages can be misleading because when you average out extremes, you get something which doesn't represent the severity of cold snaps and heat waves. Is that wrong?

Sorry- new baby in the house (not mine, but I’m doing night shifts)- I’m not firing on all cylinders!!