AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

In a lot of places in Europe where they don't have uniform, it seems to mainly revert to an unofficial uniform of jeans and t-shirts/unremarkable tops.

One thing I never understood - if Neighbours and Home & Away are accurate(?!) - is why Australian schools have uniforms for girls but not for boys? Weird.

We didn’t have that issue either. In fact we “made” our own uniform of jeans and tops/shirts . Very few girls actually wore skirts and none as short as we see today. Probably because it wasn’t such a big deal like non uniform days are here or trying adjust a set uniform.

I've voted YANBU OP, but really because I think it's a bit lame for the school to palm off coming up with reasons "why it's not a good idea".

It's not a good idea because
• school isn't a fashion runway
• school isn't the beach, or a swimming pool
• school uniform isn't fashion wear or for sunbathing in
• everyone that wears the uniform carries the school's image out into their wider community
• the school does not want their image to be of unclad juvenile bottoms
• the same standard is required of boys and girls - the boys' uniform requires their bottoms to be covered too
• the uniform code states very clearly that skirts should be worn no higher than X above the knee
• workplaces have dress codes as well as schools, and this dress code is not extreme or unusual, and all pupils are expected to follow it, or for further action to be taken - this is the same that would happen in a workplace with a dress code & is not unreasonable. Anyone who feels so strongly about the dress code that they don't want to spend their weeks in that environment is welcome to find a place elsewhere - the same as with any employer dress code.
• this isn't about sexism or policing girls' bodies, it is about maintaining consistent standards for how the school is represented across the wider community, both during and outside school hours. When pupils are on their own time & outside school, the school has got no interest in what pupils choose to wear, but in school uniform, it needs to be worn to meet the uniform rules.

It would help a lot of parents to actually put that unwritten bit into writing, so there is leas kickback about 'my body, my choice'. Of course it is.... but their uniform, their choice too. If you don't like that, find a different school.

Yes - I think skirts are the issue. My children are in their 20s now, so I'm not up-to-speed on teenagers, but I'm guessing that teenage girls would choose to wear jeans in their leisure time over a skirt or a dress?

It seems to be the need to wear a skirt which causes the rebelliousness, in various ways. So put them all in trousers - problem solved.

I know a pp mentioned that trousers were not great for all young women and cited thick sanitary protection as a reason. But - surely that would apply with skirts too? I mean, you'd have to wear a considerably longer skirt to conceal sanitary protection than is 'fashionably acceptable to you peers etc'.

There are plenty of different trouser styles and these could be offered: slim (but not tight), or looser, so that no-one is forced to wear something clingy and revealing.

Dd used to roll her skirt up, but it was just a bit of rolling up and she always / even in ghe height of summer - wore thick black tights.

However, I was driving through a nearby town at 3pm and - omg - the skirt rolling was on another level. There were two girls with bare bottoms on display (I assume they were wearing thongs). It was frankly really, really grim. Actually I could hardly believe that they could walk down the street in such a state.

I'd ask them to clarify because its giving 'women being responsible for men's behaviour/she was asking for it' vibes and surely that's not what they mean, especially in the context of children.

It’s not. That’s what some posters jumped straight to. Maybe because they can’t think of any other reasons? However, that’s on them.

Trousers can cause issues too and they’re trickier to police due to so much choice. Most schools that allow trousers only bypass that by picking one type from a school supplier and offering that. Already it causes a discrepancy, because you can’t just buy them anywhere and they tend to be more expensive. They’re also shit for any girl that is a different body shape. DD for example, has quite wide hips but a very narrow waist,to fit the waist, trousers are very very tight on her hips , to fit her hips they are gaping at the waist. I buy a lot of those waist cincher clips online. The high street has options , but it would not be regulation trousers.

Tbf I don’t really get the English obsession with school uniforms anyway, but that’s a whole other thread.

Oh fuck off, you seriously don’t look in front of you when you walk upstairs? Im pretty sure you’d fucking notice a bare arse in front of your face or do you turn a blind eye to that because you think it’s okay? You think people need to look at the floor and potentially hurt themselves by falling flat on their face as they aren’t looking where they are going just so they aren’t looking at something right in front of them? All because you think it’s okay for girls to wear skirts barely covering their arses?

You keep being up ‘men’s feelings’ as if women don’t think it’s not right either, many women understand that you don’t have a skirt that shows your arse off. you might be happy for your daughter to walk around showing her arse off but many woman have something you lack…respect.

We have the same problem at our local girls’ school. And as one insightful
mum said… “There are no boys at the school to look at their legs, only dirty old
men who stand at various crossing points on the way and stare at the girls butt cheeks as they walk to school. Are those the sorts of people you want looking at your girls?

The problem is that so many girls just refuse to accept and comply with the uniform rules without insisting on pushing the boundaries.

For those girls, if the school bans skirts and makes it trousers only for everybody, they'll wear the ultra tight ones, extremely low-slung at the back, or even just leggings instead.

And if they're told off for the completely unacceptable styles, they'll kick off and insist "We have to wear black trousers - and these are black trousers" and then probably accuse the teachers of being perverts for 'deliberately' looking at the outlines of their crotches.

Good point. This can often be an issue at girls only schools too. Because it’s not just about pandering to the male gaze(one way or another).

Just sanction the girls and give them detention for violating school uniform policy

This isn’t just about sex as a female I don’t know where to look when I see skirts skimming arse cheeks it’s not appropriate in school after school it’s up to them the rules are there for a reason. imagine if boys wore shorts up there arse boys shorts are a decent length. There is no need to have so much skin on show in schools full stop a teacher wouldn’t be allowed to wear them. It’s embarrassing.

Then the school should send parents a list of acceptable styles of trousers. If they don’t conform, then their child needs to go to another school.

That’s just ending up with the same issue though? School policing children’s clothing , the reasons why, accusations of sexism and bad wording because skin tight trousers/cheap, see through leggings are a bad idea.

Also, why punish the girls who aren’t doing anything wrong by forcing them to wear trousers?

That would seem reasonable and sensible from the school, I agree.

Oh give it a rest. Nobody wants to see girls wearing skirts that look more like belts and show their knickers.

What did your teacher friend about your AIBU re wanting to challenge the school about the very sensible wording they used @GreenSalon ?

Schools can “police” bad language for example. So why can’t the “police” the dress code?

Honestly girls should be allowed to wear what they like skirt wise whilst adhering to a sensible uniform policy.

@Gloriia can you expand on what you think “sensible uniform policy” looks like? Given you think also that girls should be able to wear whatever length skirt they wish to to school?

Maybe just allow it. If it wasn't " forbidden " then it's less attractive to teenagers.

No

While I agree with Cricket really...

...when I was teaching, I did sometimes have Walter Mitty daydream of making it a school rule for shirts ALWAYS to be untucked and hanging down. That would undoubtedly make all the students tuck them in!

Yes, some kids will rebel against their uniform rules but in my day it was just making your tie fat with a big knot. No-one could touch you for it, because it was just a knotted tie.

Fiddling with your tie and turning over the hem of your ordinary skirt to make it a couple of inches shorter is of a different order to putting the cheeks of your backside on public display though. Why people cannot see this, I just don't know. I think they fall into 2 categories:

• knee-jerk ultra feminists who just swallow the mantra that women can wear what they like and
• parents who encourage their children to rebel and whose motto is 'You can't tell my kid what to do!' Heard that a few times. Actually, I think they'll find that teachers can.