Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

Thank you x

Agree with you here Op and I believe this is partly the reason why the country is on its knees. More people claiming than paying in and expecting help or a free ride.

I have two neurodiverse children that I could potentially claim for but I just don’t agree with it. Yes if someone is actually disabled and cannot work then they should get help but people who are able to work and support their children should. I’ve heard about so many people claiming that work or are able to work but don’t and exaggerating conditions to get more money and actually have advised me to do this!!! And then we have no money left for accessible healthcare for everyone and homeless people everywhere while some peoples benefits pay for their expensive holidays. It actually makes me sick.

(I am in no way saying that this applies to all, there are lots of people who need these benefits and I fully support them!) Also leaving the whole country at risk as we can’t afford to spend properly on defence. I feel sad for our children’s future if this carries on.

I think the philosophy of paying people so they can make their own decisions and budget was essentially sound. I don’t agree with giving people vouchers etc, for lots of reasons.

I also think it’s important to bear in mind that people contribute to society in myriad ways and paying tax is only one of these.

I also reserve the right to feel irritated by posters saying Netflix is not a luxury, it’s only £6 a month, not because I think people on benefits shouldn’t spend money on Netflix (I don’t think that) but because it is a luxury. It may be a luxury a person decides is worthwhile for them, because they have precious little else to enjoy, and that’s absolutely fine; but when people who are not receiving state support have to make tough decisions about budgeting and priorities see others merrily letting the state provide for their children while they take no responsibility, and have luxuries they themselves can’t afford, then it’s not surprising those not receiving support get annoyed.

People need to take responsibility for their own lives and their own decisions. Not expect everyone else to pick up the pieces.

Sometimes taking responsibility is asking for help when you need it.

I'm comfortable with my own decisions. I can't be bothered worrying about anyone else's.

Remember that when you need an ambulance.

I agree that they are entitled to put forward their views in those cases, but I am talking about those who rush in as soon as the thread is started, when disability payments have never even been mentioned. If they didn't start with their "what about me" then the thread could continue in the spirit it was intended - but no, they just have to say their piece, the thread becomes derailed, and it really is annoying.

Incidentally, before MN I never realised how many disabled people on benefits there actually are. I'm not in the UK and I don't know a single person who receives them here (many do of course, I'm just saying I don't know any).

There are some horrible people on here.

Yes, and it isnt your place to police it. People are entitled to an opinion, even if it doesn't fit the original title or tone. You're not the thread police, are you?

Disability is allowed to be discussed, you know. 😒🙄

Of course it is allowed to be discussed, but why on threads where it was never mentioned in the first place? People should be allowed to discuss the actual subject of the thread without it constantly being derailed by people who can't seem to understand that not everything is about them.

The OP was blasting welfare claimants, of which people with disabilites are a huge cohort.

I remember when Tory Austerity was going to deal with that problem.

Regardless, I don't see why Welfare is invariably the thing being talked about as "unsustainable" with regard to the UK's financial predicament.

The UK's spending on Health is larger than it's Welfare bill, is that "unsustainable"?

The UK's spending on Education is a significant chunk of GDP, approximately £125billion. Is that "unsustainable"?

Is it not just that people have a conniption if you suggest we should be spending less on hospitals and schools, because it might affect them or their children, and generally speaking attitude is that not enough is spent in these areas to begin with, but the poor and disabled, nope, that's fair game, those are "unsustainable".

Imagine if you suggested the sick and elderly are unsustainable therefore we'll slash NHS spending so they die off more readily, or that educating children is an unsustainable drain on the UK economy, so kids can just go and fuck off and forget about being schooled, doubly so if they are disabled kids.

Some might consider that the problem with this thread is the amount of spurious claims and attention-seeking behaviour from the usual culprits.

Maybe there needs to be an “opt out”
option. You pay minumum amount of tax (enough to cover your share of the unavoidable costs such as police, roads) but at the same time you don’t contribute to benefits: and you aren’t entitled to them either S

Why just benefits? What about the option of opting out of education, NHS etc

Yep, I have seen posters feel aggrieved for paying towards the NHS when they can access full private healthcare (and it is not really full.... are there private emergency ambulances and A&E? thought not).

It's not that complex- if you tax people for working and pay benefits for not working then don't be surprised at the increase in number of people on benefits.

The problem with this is, it presumes a minimum self-established safeguard which will always be there due to accrued wealth and such.

It's not a great argument to make outlandish examples, but outlandish things do happen on rare occasions, so they do have to be taken into consideration because they absolutely do occur to small numbers of people.

Say you "opt out", and then your hitherto loyal and dependable spouse liquidates all of your assets, empties your bank account, buggers off to Paraguay with everything but the knickers you are wearing, while you are in your private hospital bed recovering from a serious Stroke. You have no assets, you can't keep up the payments on your private schemes, you have no cash on hand to pay for care etc, you can't work due to your infirmity, so is the State genuinely expected to go "tough, you opted out, so I suggest you just go sleep rough under a bridge somewhere with all the risks to wellbeing that entails". No? Why not? would there be some sort of emergency, EMERGENCY contingency? If so, it's not really an opt out then if the State still steps in anyway.

On MN.. you will be told that it is your fault due to a poor choice of partner.

Yes, I'm more than aware it was a universal benefit although it was possible to opt out. My point was that almost nobody did even though technically most people receiving it didn't need it on the basis of household income which is how eligibility for most benefits is restricted these days (I'm not necessarily arguing that's how it should be). So a higher percentage of the population were in receipt of government handouts back then (including the vast numbers who were subsidised in the form of council housing - 54% in Scotland and 33% in England, even if these subsidies were less obvious). And some of these people who took these subsidies back then despite not needing them are on here judging others who are probably in far greater need.

I'm so very sorry to read this. My heart goes out to you and your family.
...and absolutely well bloody said!

What a lovely friend you are....

Agreed.
in general perpetrators of crime, anti social behaviour etc get way more support than victims of their crimes and antisocial behaviour.
A child does / is abused. Blame the agencies.
Antisocial behaviour- send in some more support for the perpetrators
Its sickening and time for change

Seems the governments plans really are working to set everyone against each other , shame on those who have fallen for it . Are we not living in a world with enough unkindness towards others ? The point of your post is you are jealous, resentful and bitter of someone … are you not ? Otherwise im at a loss why a grown adult feels the need to come onto a forum like this just to start up what is ideally a rage bait post .

Do to others as you would have
them do to you."
Luke 6:31

What is your problem with this poster claiming something she's perfectly entitled to claim?
Would you rather the money went to people who have never paid?