Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

How old are you? Did you grow up pre 1948 and the establishment of the Welfare State then?

Oh great. So now you want me to add shame to the mix because I can’t do stuff. Fabulous.

What are you hoping to achieve exactly?

Being disabled is a personal failure is a new one on me I have to say. I must tell the doctors who saved my life as a baby that one.

This is not true.

The GP visited homes. The health visitor, the district nurse. Social worker, elderly services.
A hospital visit was days not hours, with good food, and health care assistant support.
Everyone got free school meals, milk, eye tests, glasses, dentistry, prescriptions...

Unemployment benefit, housing allowance.

You are just making things up.

It was more about the attitude that you did not use those services unless there were no other choices at all.

That you did everything you could to avoid the shame of asking for help - it was seen as personal failure

Ah right, the ridiculous snobbery and self-stigmatisation that still sees around £24billion in Welfare go unclaimed by eligible people in the UK each year then.

Sorry your childhood was so shit an your parents didn't care.

Great ragebait post. I take it you're a bit hurt over Burnham winning.

This post is the one I meant to quote.

I’ll make sure the nhs doctors know that they are enabling my personal failure.

aren’t you a peach.

Yes, they are remembering the 1930s I think!

Bring back the work house, that will sort it 🙄

Agreed to a large extent. Everything is up to the state to fix rather than any sense of personal or community responsibility.

When the OP inevitably becomes disabled as we all eventually do if we don't just drop dead from a heart attack, you should just lob them in a bush with a bottle luzcozade. They're tough they are. Will be fine. No need for any benefits or social care.

It is true that the most disabled people are left to struggle and crowded out of good resources to fill the plates of those who can spin a good approximation of disability out of smaller difficulties.

You what?

Awwww bless ya cottons! You really are quite naive, aren't you??

That’s not what the OP is saying.

I starved and got into debt rather than claim benefits when I was entitled to, as I was brought up to see them as something shameful.
I now feel stupid for thinking that way. Self-stigmatisation is the correct term.

It's the old myth that someone claiming nullifies someone else's eligibilty, again, and it's still utter nonsense.

Avoid the shame of asking for help.

what the fuck am I supposed to do then? Please tell me, I’m all ears @hagchic

How is that difficult to understand? We have people who can plough through our welfare system tactically amassing high levels of financial assistance and resources, leaving those who are struggling far more with less than they need.

Of course it is.

Has someone resurrected Thatcher? Meanwhile it’s the wealthy that are the real scroungers. Let’s start with them then we can talk about everyone else.

It's not "difficult to understand", it's total and utter rubbish.

What someone else claims has zero impact on a 2nd individual's eligibility. None.

I am all ears @hagchic come and tell me what I should do.

im here and waiting.

I cant really think of a time when there wasnt some form of charity and welfare of sorts. It was a bit more punative maybe and sometimes seen as shameful but it didnt not exist at all. Mainly run by the church for literally 1000 years.

The 1948 beveridge report brought in the welfare state as we know it now with our benefits, pension and nhs etc. Its still a long time so I dont think all working class people felt that way.

My grandfather fought hard alongside others to get things like proper social housing, sick pay, annual leave and so on as a working class man who grew up in poverty. My mum was born the year before the nhs and it transformed lives in her rough bit of london.

Im sure some people take advantage and thier attitudes suck but I wouldnt want to make 5 people suffer so 1 person cant take the piss and im yet to be convinced that piss takers make up even as much as 20%.

i also dont think its unreasonable to say heres a long well established tradition (like state education) which i pay for with taxes, so i expect it to work.