Aibu to suggest alternative books to 12 year old DD when she asks to read something I believe is unsuitable for her age?

[Bettyberryburst]

My DD (aged just turned 12) is an avid reader and came home from school asking to read A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas. My first thought was that she is an author known for adult books. Apparently her English teacher used a quote from her book for a lesson and DD asked for the title. Her friend has read it and A Good Girls Guide to Murder, which DD is also asking to read. Am I being unreasonable to think DD should read some more romance/consent books before reading about sexual assault? Or am I being totally naive and it would be beneficial for DD to read about it to understand it and why it is wrong?

Weirdly I am ok with the murder/violence aspect as this feels so far away from day to day life for us. Swearing does not bother me one bit. She has read the Divergent series, The Hunger Games and Maze Runner books, fantasy is usually her favourite genre. I'm not totally against her starting on some young adult fiction but some of it feels too much for her. Am I being OTT to vet what DD reads or should she be allowed free reign now she is at secondary school?

Any recommendations also appreciated!

I was reading Lace and Jackie Collins 🫠

I somehow got my hands on the Anita Blake series as a 12 year old and read the whole thing (well up to book 10ish which was all that was published at the time).

I think it's better to let he read what she wants freely as then she will be more likely to come to you with any concerns or questions she has. If she ends up reading something similar to a "banned" book she is more likely to keep it secret. If she ends up googling questions instead she may end up getting that information from more harmful places.

I’m an avid reader and have been from the time that I learnt to read. I became an English teacher and love reading and always have, it’s my favourite activity. Most of my childhood reading was of library books, and at our library you got your adult ticket at 10 and all bets were off, the world was your oyster.

I read EVERYTHING including books like Lolita and The Tropic of Cancer and then things like Bridget Jones and To Kill a Mockingbird aged 10/11/12. I memorably read a book about JFK’s assassination at the same age and it had very graphic photos in the middle (I bloody loved that). Nobody tried to stop me because it was accepted that I had an adult reading age now, so would read adult books.

It did me no harm at all; if I didn’t understand it, it went over my head and that was fine. Some books I read then and later picked up again as an adult and thought “oh yeah, so that’s what that means”.

I would let your daughter read whatever she wants.

I guess it depends whether it's the graphic sex or the theme that worries people.

FitA as you say was fairly mild on the sex front. But equally the sex was between a teenage brother and sister locked up by their mother to die in an attic. I vaguely remember the start of the sequel (or maybe another VA book) with an inappropriate relationship with a much older man in a position of authority.

I'm SO glad my parents weren't the book police when I was young and could read what I liked.
YABU

Yes to this!

There's a fork in the road in YA fiction. One fork leads to bodice rippers. I'd steer her clear of Maas altogether.

Her female characters are simpering eejits under the 'strong, independent female' facade, and her male characters are territorial and possessive.

If you're a feminist, and you care about the impact of that sort of codswallop on an impressionable mind, find her something better.

At that age I was getting my ideas on sex from my granny's tatty copy of A Woman of Substance. And the inevitable copy of Forever that we all secretly passed around. I don't think it did me any harm. The sense that reading was the gateway to secret exciting adult knowledge was a big part of what kept me doing it. (So glad I grew up without the internet). I read everything, was always doing great at school, and nobody in the family took any notice at all - the attitude was just "reading is good and she's doing it, thumbs up". I'm racking my brains for anything I read back then that disturbed or traumatised me in any way and drawing a blank. Whereas I still clearly remember seeing a film with a few sex scenes too young and being disturbed (the sex looked violent to me. Don't think it was, but I was just too young to get it). I'd be much more worried about what they see online, these days. Encourage any time spent with books and not screens.

(Free rein, btw. The metaphor being controlling - or not - horses, with the reins).

Let her read whatever the hell she wants. Please please encourage this! At 10/11 I had read Angela’s Ashes, Misery, We Need to Talk About Kevin, Katie Price’s autobiography… I was hungry for literature and those were the books knocking around the house. By 14 I was reading Kerouac and Ginsberg. I’m now an American Lit lecturer.

Please don’t hold the girl back.

ACOTAR itself is pretty tame but some of the later books in the series are quite explicit.

Here is a section from one of the later ones. There are quite a few sections like this throughout,

’Cassian’s fingers dug into her hips so hard Nesta knew she’d bruise, loved that she’d bruise. He shifted his stance, and his cock plunged even deeper, rubbing against that spot, and the sounds that came from her weren’t human or Fae, but something far more primal.
“Fuck, yes,” he snarled at her abandon. “That’s it, Nesta.”
He accentuated each word with a savage thrust. “Do I feel good to you?”
She whimpered her confirmation, then managed to say, “I like it when you ride me hard. Every time I move and my body is sore …” She had to fight for words. For control. “I think of you. Of your cock.”
“Good. I want my cock to be the only thing you think about.”
His pace faltered as he licked up the column of her neck. She could hear the taunting smile in his words as he whispered,
“Because your pretty little cunt is the only thing I think about.”
At the words, his foul language, her toes curled. But she wouldn’t let him win this one, not when this had somehow become a competition for who could make the other come first, so she whispered, “I love being so covered in your seed that it leaks out of me for ages afterward. I love feeling it slide down my thighs and knowing you left your mark in me.”

Throne of Glass is far less explicit.

The sex in the Throne of Glass happens behind closed doors in the first three or four books. After that it’s very much not behind closed doors.

True. But it's less explicit than ACOTAR and Crescent City for the most part from memory 🫠

I recall DD reading Flowers in the Attic at about that age and remarking that it was unsuitable. She also read Atonement at about that age. And, I recall, 50 Shades of Gray which she persevered with for a chapter and gave up due to the poor grammar and syntax. It didn't do any harm and she's an English teacher now.

I think something a bit raunchy or explpring difficult topocs is fine if DC have stable, loving backgrounds and know about consent and boundaries.

Young people's literature is varied and great today and there should be plenty of options that aren't childish, tiresome or inappropriate.

Definitely the series gets more sexually explicit as it goes on, with the scene quoted above from the most recent being pretty much the peak of how explicit and porny the sex is.

In many ways the most recent ACOTAR book was my favourite of them all, but it was more despite the sex scenes than because of them. I was rolling my eyes sometimes at scenes like the one quoted above, it got a bit OTT.

Some of the best discussions about books I have with my 12 year old are started by her, frustrated about the lack of good female main characters and the use of sexist stereotypes in books, lazy writing etc. She tore apart (metaphorically of course) at least one series. She's ruthless, and I've no clue where she got this from 😁

Oh absolutely. I got to the point I was fed up of all the banging after a while and just wanted them to crack on with the actual plot 😂

But back to the question at hand. Is the above sex scene from the ACOTAR series probably suitable for kids? No. Probably not. But each to their own options.

Sheesh, you kind of want to point out that the average ejaculation is less than a teaspoon, however much snarling you do.

Thank you for the recommendation. Have reserved a Naomi Novik book in the library 😀

Op I worked in a book store and we were told not to sell Sara J Maas to under 16s. If someone about 13 came with parents we were told to strongly advise not to buy. Didn’t happen often but generally we just got sad looks from the teen and a thanks from the parent. Twice colleagues got a lecture from a parent on trying to stop kids reading

I'm another person who at 12 was reading good wholesome literature about incest in attics, and wife swapping with riding crops.

My toes also curled ... in embarrassment! That is terrible writing.

I never once asked my mum or dad if I could read something, I just read it (then hid it in my school bag!).

I was reading adult books from the age of 11. Its hugely beneficial as the vocabulary, depth and complexity in good examples isn't replicated in books aimed at children.
If it were me I'd allow the book and read it in tandum instigating conversations about it as you go (mini book group!). This will give you opportunity to address anything you're concerned about, without denying her the benefits.
In all honesty, I learned more age inappropriate stuff from my peers and older kids in the playground than I ever did between the pages of a good book.

I don't censor what my children read. My teen has read plenty books that would have been considered age-inappropriate.

I suppose my main reasons for taking this approach are that:

1. Kids will, at some point, encounter this stuff. It'll come as a video on a phone, or as a direct, real-life experience, or a friend will experience it and the kids will be trying to help and deal with the consequences, or they'll encounter it in a book. I'm giving them a good chance of first encountering this stuff as words on a page.

2. Mature themes in books come with context. There's narrative around the build-up which explains how the event came about, and typically, the after-effects and consequences are explored. I think this is far, far preferable to a first encounter being a decontextualised clip on a phone.

3. What adults picture and feel when reading mature themes is informed by their adult experiences and understanding. A young teen without that adult life experience and knowledge has a different, far less intense experience reading the same passage.

4. It's far, far easier to pause, take a break, reflect, or choose not to continue reading a book with challenging themes, than it is to look away from a disturbing video.

5. My kids read physical books, which I can see, so I know what they are reading. I can read the book myself first, if I want to devote the time, or I can get a synopsis of what it covers and the themes within it. I can let my child know ahead of time that there's some pretty disturbing stuff in the book, and it's absolutely OK for them to bring up for discussion anything they've found challenging, and also OK for them to put the book down and not finish it. I get some foresight of what my child will encounter, which helps me be available and informed and better able to respond if they want to discuss anything.

I'm all for my kids reading whatever they want to, and I love that they both read daily for pleasure.

I read Hollywood Wives at 13. Talk about inappropriate! My mum asked if she could read it after and I was so embarrassed I dropped it in a pool! I don’t think I’m scarred for life though. I try and keep up with what my kids read - one is voracious. Although I drew the line at one of his A level books that involved incest and abortion.

This is a much better way of expressing. My kids do have kindles, but I have to get the books for them so I sometimes know what they’re reading. My 9 year old son has been reading a 20 book series that’s ‘meant’ for young adults - looked through one out of interest and there’s some kissing. He thinks that’s super gross of course.

My 13 year old daughter reads whatever she wants. She goes to her school library lots and I’ll buy her whatever she wants to read. She goes between the young adult and adult sections. I’d probably warn her if I knew something was explicit or scary, but I’m mostly just pleased she’s reading. We have a local book festival and I’ve taken her to a few things in the adult category - mostly angry feminism themed as that’s her thing.

At 12/13 I was reading flowers in the attic, dystopias and Holocaust memoirs (I’m Jewish and that’s a phase many angsty teenage Jewish girls go through!). I’m still a huge reader today.

She's 12, not 8. YABU.