To think long term affairs are like a form of fraud really

[paddleboardingmum]

Or a scam or something? Yet another of my friends has been cheated on (long marriage, teenage kids) in a situation where he's been in an affair for years. By doing that you're not only living a lie but really it's conning the other person isn't it? I'm not saying it should be a crime as such, just thinking about the deceit factor with this type of situation.

I know someone’s who was cheated on by their husband, and then later on in an unrelated incident was raped.
She said she was “raped” every day of her marriage as the sex was through deceipt, so the actual attack didn’t phase her half as much.

@PeoniesAreMyFavouriteFlowers patronising much?

My point is/was folk can say whatever they choose or is handed to them in their wedding vows but it’s not contractual in anyway and I don’t believe it’s in human nature to stay with one person for life, but has been accepted/the norm because of women’s place in the world until the freedoms of the 20th century set them loose.

Then don’t agree to it.

This js my biggest issue. If I consent to sex in a monogamous relationship only and my partner sleeps with multiple people, the sex we had is definitely nonconsensual.

@Wordsworsehi there @CurdinHenry

Good things did happen but being lied to is destroying. All mine had to do was tell me the truth and leave. He didn’t have the moral courage to do that.

There actually is a country which allows you to sue for damages when cheated on if married - Japan. So there is a country with a precedent for it...

Wedding vows might not mean much to you, but they are supposed to mean something? If you don't want to agree to being monogamous, then don't? You're absolutely right - both men AND women have the freedoms to do that, yet for some reason, people still cheat when they have made a promise not to.

I just don't get this attitude at all. Do what you want, I don't really care - unless you've made a promise to explicitly not do something. Then don't, without giving me the opportunity to say actually, this is important to me, and if you aren't going to uphold your end of our vows, then we are going to break up?

This is the problem.

if you don’t want a monogamous relationship, then say so.

Maybe society needs to reduce the shame around wanting to leave a relationship. But I have been cheated on and had a young child with the person and one of the things I couldn’t get over is the fact that we made an agreement. We are exclusive to eachother. I was doing my part and not interacting with others, but turns out he had a whole double life.

If you don’t want to be with me, or if you want to explore outside. Tell me so that I can make a decision too. It is such a selfish act. It’s the secrecy that’s awful, and the lack of choice you have as the victim of it.

It is awful! You don’t know what kind of infections you could spread, because maybe he was more ontop of his sexual health, but I was relaxed about it. There have been cases where partners spread things such as HIV.

Thats on the extreme end. But it is awful. I think I’m pretty intelligent, I’m lucky I’ve always had my own money and assets - but I felt so decieved and stupid. It is actually worse than being scammed! Because the person acts so loving to you whilst sneaking off with someone else.

It’s the ultimate mind f*ck.

Yes I’m a little bit bitter. But infidelity is awful and life destroying. And family destroying when kids are involved.

edited for a major typo

So sad 😔

How is it viewed in France please?

My neighbour's now ex wife was having an affair with her friend's husband. She got caught out by her friend, so she confessed to her husband before he got told by her friend. Not only that, but she squandered the emergency cash fund that was in the house (husband was main breadwinner as she only had a part-time cleaning job), plus she spent her son's inheritance that was in an account where she was the joint account holder. It was quite a few thousand pounds. She refused to tell anyone what she did with the money, but looking at a few other things, personally I think it was gambling.

Husband kicked her out immediately and teenage DS has refused to have anything to do with her. She has lost her home, her husband, her son, her friend, plus quite a few other friends/family now refuse to have anything to do with her as they are disgusted by her behaviour.

As you say, it's the lies and deceit which really hurts.

The father of a former friend of mine actually had two families. He worked away a lot, so this enabled him to create the second family. Eventually, it all came to light and he left my former friend's DM.

I know the French thing's a stereotype and nothing's that simple. But, well, I've lived in France and, ime, there is a socially validated option that we don't have in the UK. And it has boundaries that everyone knows, designed to rock boats as little as possible.

It's basically don't ask, don't tell, don't be a twat. You don't get suspicious when your husband/wife goes out to book club or the gym, wearing a nice outfit and perfume, and comes home late. You make an obvious and educated guess. You say nothing about it. You don't see your 'little friend' so often that it prevents either them or you engaging in your marriage. You don't miss family events for them. You don't mope about the pool on your family holiday, you keep extra-marital messaging to a decent minimum.

Not everyone could live like this. I could, actually. Unfortunately, both my husbands were outraged by the very idea, so I bought into the exclusive monogamy they said they wanted. Both cheated prolifically. All the bloody lies! The coercing friends to lie for them, the total life damage that causes. It's impossible to believe they weren't getting a kick out of deceiving me, letting me down, betraying me. Because I'd told them I could live with non-monogamy, just not with being disregarded. So they did both.

Incidentally, XH2 cheated on his current wife with me while they were engaged. He had absolutely no reason to - it must be part of his inbuilt drive to be a dishonest arsehole, proving some kind of point to no-one in particular.

My father is a disgusting individual who had multiple affairs, the last one coming to light when my mum was in her seventies. She’d forgiven earlier indiscretions (wrongly) but this affair was decades long, and it’s destroyed her. Divorce and loss of half of his assets was the legal remedy but the after effects on everyone’s mental and physical health could never be compensated.

The marriage certificate is a legal document,so maybe it should be a crime to cheat while married.That would make some people think twice about the consequences! Make them pay all the legal fees and lose the children to the other parent,plus have to leave the marital home without any financial gain.I think a lot of women would not agree with this because as many women cheat ad men.

It’s definitely the endless lying that does the damage, more so even than the infidelity itself. I’ve been a victim of it too. Unfortunately, though, I don’t think much can be done about that at a societal level.

I find it quite fascinating psychologically and wonder how many of them are narcissistic or psychopathic. I’m not talking about people who have short flings or ONS, I can understand that more but long term affairs over the course of years is something else entirely. They must be able to shapeshift and mould themselves into who each partner wants them to be. Also think the deceit must become second nature, absolutely inherent and engrained.

Little bit silly, the Nazis tried to police who people had sex with for example…

I think there should an element of fault for sorting out finances on divorce. I entered a legal contract (marriage) while facts were purposefully withheld from me (he was having an affair). I would not have entered into that contract if I’d have known (didn’t find out for years) and as I have more assets I’m the one that’s also screwed if we divorce.

Any other legal contract would be void if facts were withheld knowingly or you could at least sue for misrepresentation.

Not even thinking the emotional damages it caused - I pretty much had a total breakdown - I’d have healed much quicker from a stranger assaulting me physically and you can claim money for that.

I dont think its about love its the thrill of deception, an awful lot of affairs fizzle out once they are exposed and its mundane

Its weak, selfish people with fragile egos who dont work on their marriages/ relationships and it goes hand in hand with narcicissm .
They always blame their partners

Its called The Script
" look what you made me do, its your fault" and goes along with DARVO

My exH had an affair for over 20 years with my sister. I had absolutely no idea - she would phone up needing help with cutting the grass, fixing the boiler etc. They were at it even before we got married. No I don't look back on any part our marriage and see the good times. He was an abusive idiot in other ways too.

Oh my goodness what an absolute callous betrayal of you by both of them.
How absolutely devastating.
I'm so sorry.

Of all the ludicrous suggestions here which include: financial compensation, somehow making cheating akin to sexual assault as it's 'non-consensual' (an insult to those who have genuinely been sexually assaulted imo) this has got to trump them all.
Well done.

Bear in mind women cheat, too.
So you're saying that mothers should be separated from their children as presumably this crime has to be punished?

These sort of imo bonkers suggestions are what you get when you make the relatively humble institution of marriage-which is essentially a vehicle for raising children - and endow it with things like enduring sexual attraction and obsession with the other spouse that can't be maintained long-term.

The bloody French have got it right. And they make better cheese.

I feel the same. It is exactly that - a con. You wouldn’t have sex with someone if you knew they were having sex with someone else so lying about it and still having sex with the spouse is coercive I believe. It’s tricky because should an affair be criminalised? Probably not, but I do think aspects of it could be deemed illegal. What if you take out a loan for your partner to clear some debt and you do that based on the trust you have in them but all the time they were railing someone else for example? Well surely that should be criminal? It’s new complicated but I agree with the essence of what you’re saying. The other person is basing all their decisions and actions on the basis that the other person isn’t cheating.