To think long term affairs are like a form of fraud really

[paddleboardingmum]

Or a scam or something? Yet another of my friends has been cheated on (long marriage, teenage kids) in a situation where he's been in an affair for years. By doing that you're not only living a lie but really it's conning the other person isn't it? I'm not saying it should be a crime as such, just thinking about the deceit factor with this type of situation.

I wonder what QE2 thought of Prince Phillip's affairs?

If your marriage is awful then you leave it. Then you are free to hop in and out of as many beds as you like.

(I left an abusive marriage. I never saw that as a charter to cheat. The right thing to do was spend time single and learn to be strong on my own before risking any further relationships)

I can see your point, but I think laws like those are too medieval for the appetite of today's society.

It really isn't easy to leave, for many. While not morally ideal, it's obviously much, much easier to leave if you have someone else. And if someone's abused you, who cares what they think. They had it coming. And only their ego's hurt anyway, because if someone abuses you, they don't care about you.

ETA: I mean, good for you if you were able to get away without compromising your morals. Obviously that's the ideal. But people are only human, and I think holding people to such an impossibly high standard as to judge them if they meet someone else, when they feel trapped in a truly awful or abusive longterm marriage, is just not being realistic or compassionate. Some people really need help to leave, because their marriage has made them too depressed or downtrodden to do it alone. Some people need a reason. Some people trudge along coping until they meet someone who is actually nice to them.

I definitely judge people who have perfectly good marriages but say "I just want more." That is GROSS.

But I have felt the despair of a truly awful marriage, and if leaving would be a hardship, I don't judge someone who snatches some happiness where they can. (If the marriage is really bad and has been for a long time.)

I NEVER believed he had affairs. I think he was far too upstanding for that. There has never been one shred of evidence. The foreign press would have been all over it, if not the British press. And they've both been gone a while, and still nothing. Can you imagine the payday for someone who was willing to tell what they knew? I don't believe a word of it. He was a highly disciplined and principled man who loved the Queen. Also he'd have had no money of his own whatsoever if she'd kicked him out.

I know someone who has been involved with a married man for over 20 years. When her husband discovered the affair, he left and informed the man’s wife, but she decided to remain with her husband. My friend carried on the relationship because the man claimed he was no longer intimate with his wife. Unsurprisingly, both my friend and the wife became pregnant at the same time. Their children are now adults, yet the man is still with his wife while seeing my friend on the side. I’ve always found it strange that the wife chose to stay in the marriage - she just totally ignores it when he goes on holiday with my friend - he tells his wife he is going on holiday with his child from the OW, and gets her to book two tickets, he then tells my friend the flight details and she books her own ticket joining them on the flight! I don’t think the wife is that naive, I think she just turns a blind eye.

How absolutely awful. I cannot believe the man's marriage has survived. I only hope his wife has had her fun, too. Maybe it's an open marriage.

Your friend's story is very sad. Imagine wasting your childbearing years on a situation like that and having a child with someone unavailable.

My father had an affair which was disclosed when I was 14. It seems he was seeing the women most/all of my childhood.

My Mum stayed with him. He did leave briefly, between my GCSEs and A’Levels. Only to return and stay.

My parents are in their 80s now.

🤷‍♀️

I once had a friend who said she wouldn’t care if her DH slept with somebody else provided he used a condom and didn’t tell her. He had had the snip so wasn’t going to get anyone pregnant. She said it just wasn’t something she cared about and wasn’t a jealous person.

I feel the same really. I’ve never been a jealous person. I get that a lot of people here would really care about it, but I just wouldn’t. Not sure why.

But if they haven't done the work to be ok being single there is an enormous risk the new man will be abusive too

And you make it sound like they should go straight into being financially dependent on a new man which sounds like a recipe for disaster

No, I wasn't thinking of finances at all. I was thinking of emotional support.

You're right about that risk. But still, some people do find someone nice who helps them leave.

I don’t want to live in society where affairs are illegal, generally such laws disproportionately discriminate against and disadvantage women. Where there are long term affairs usually there are often many years of disconnect. Whilst it’s horrible to see one’s friend treated this way, I have known just as many women to have affairs - the root cause for men and women is similar: falling out of love. The reason people don’t dissolve marriages and dispose of assets the moment they stray is that they hadn’t necessarily intended to do so.

Of course there would be 'many years of disconnect' if one of the partners is leading a secret double life. Nobody has said affairs should be illegal or that it's only men who have them. However the thread was about that they are like a type of fraud on the other partner because the faithful one is unaware of the situation and that's not fair on them. Falling out of love is too simplistic I think. And if people think they have, then just have the decency to either leave, or let the other person know what's going on so they can choose to leave or not.

I think it unlikely that lots of decent men go around seeking women DV victims to rescue from relationships, sounds a bit like a mills and boon.

They’re not ‘going around seeking DV women to rescue’. They get into a relationship with a woman and help her leave to continue that relationship. An affair doesn’t make someone the devil.

Cheating on a faithful, committed partner is a horrible thing to do. Much better to tell them you want to have sex elsewhere, and leave. Cheating on an abuser is not the same thing at all.
I'm not sure that using words like 'justified' is that useful though. Understandable definitely, and with a good outcome if it helps someone leave an abusive marriage.