To think long term affairs are like a form of fraud really

[paddleboardingmum]

Or a scam or something? Yet another of my friends has been cheated on (long marriage, teenage kids) in a situation where he's been in an affair for years. By doing that you're not only living a lie but really it's conning the other person isn't it? I'm not saying it should be a crime as such, just thinking about the deceit factor with this type of situation.

I don't think that people who couldn't cope are the only people who get to decide what a reasonable reaction is.

My own view is that monogamy isnt essential. I couldn't be bothered with official polyamory or anything but I think full expectation of lifelong exclusivity is a bit naive, especially if a couple got together very young.

Infidelity is the worst thing you can do to someone who loves you. It has happened to me 4 times, I've been cheated on by every man I've ever been with. It absolutely destroys you. It left me wishing I would die in my sleep. It's as painful as bereavement but in some ways much darker as it wrecks all your happy memories and grasp on reality.

If either person is being abused (and it happens), the, yes, an affair is justified.

I don't think it's ever justified really since someone can leave a relationship and then start a new one? Some cheaters also will falsely claim the cheated on partner was abusive as an excuse.

I don't know though, but I've not seen a situation where an affair was started like that. It feels like a bit of a knight in shining armour myth.

That sounds really hard @Magicpaintbrush I hope life is going well for you now.

My own view is that monogamy isnt essential. I couldn't be bothered with official polyamory or anything but I think full expectation of lifelong exclusivity is a bit naive, especially if a couple got together very young.

That's the deal people sign up for when they get married though, unless both people have agreed otherwise.

They managed to make coercive control an offence (as it should be) so why not this?

A one off is one thing. Not great but not the same as a long term affair. No one "needs" to have an affair. Its a choice someone makes and I agree 100% that it is a form of fraud. The person is lying to make a gain and/or to not sustain a loss.

There is an offence of "fraud by false representation" usually used for benefit cheats and the like but if someone is portraying themselves as faithful when they're not, then it is "false representation". The lying and gaslighting is abuse. Why is gaslighting deemed abusive, unless its to cover for an affair and then it's supposed to be ok? No. I dont think that's right.

I havent, to my knowledge, been cheated on so its not as if I feel strongly about it for that reason. I just feel its very wrong. When I was dating, if I even got a whiff that someone might be married (or in a relationship at all), that was it for me.

@AnnaQuayRules did it make you think less of your friend? I wonder if she thinks he'll leave his wife or does she not want him to. Can't see why it's a good deal for any single person really let alone it mustn't feel so great.

What if the wife knows, but chooses to ignore it as they have agreed to stay together for the sake of the children. What does everyone think about this situation?

A former colleague of mine has had a few affairs, it’s always about the sex & excitement & feeling desired. She says it breaks up the monotony of life & she loves her DH & would never leave him. I do think she actually does love him so I didn’t know what to think at the time tbh.

I think that too @DancingLions I can't really think of another walk of life where you can get mislead like that but it's legal.

One of my extended relatives knows but turns a blind eye as she likes her life. I’m not sure if her DH knows she knows.

What if the wife knows, but chooses to ignore it as they have agreed to stay together for the sake of the children. What does everyone think about this situation?

Not a great situation but at least there's no deceit and she has the ability to choose. Different from being an unwitting victim thinking your life is one thing when it's really something else entirely.

Not necessarily. And life changes. Things are hard. Having another sexual partner is a very mundane thing, certainly not worth wanting to die over.

You can lie & cheat your partner in other ways though not just adultery.

After 25 years my husband told me he'd never loved me, never been attracted to me, had been trying to sleep with other women (oh and men!) the whole time we were together and married me because he wanted stability AKA the house deposit I had. More than half my life has been a sham and I was too old by then too start over and have a family with someone who actually loved me.

It destroyed me when I found it all out (dripfeed over a period of a couple years) and I cried for most of a 3 year year period. I agree there should be some way to sue as the damage is huge.

@urbanjungle thats awful but saying that I have a fiat few female friends who married for money & status & not love. They would never say that to their DHs though & haven’t cheated as far as I’m aware.

I absolutely bet many have

Why do you think I have not moved on - I'm just sharing an experience relevant to the topic. I continue to live a good life but the pain is still there and has effected my life. I don't view this as a weakness, just a rational, human response and accurate assessment of cause and effect.

I also never said there should be penalties, just that he didn't have any - again, relevant to the topic that long term affairs are equivalent to fraud but are not penalised.

In my case I expressly said in my post that I entered a marriage, consented to sex and conceived a child under fraudulent circumstances. I would never have consented to any of those things had I been in full possession of the facts. I think those circumstances deserve more consideration than a 'just move on' and glib comments about how monogamy isn't for everyone. Monogamy isn't for everyone but those who enter in social or legal contracts of monogamy and then break them are the one's whose behaviour needs to be looked at, not those who were decieved.

It's fraud, it's deception, it's behaviour that causes more upset that many crimes that do have legislation. I think it's an interesting topic from the OP to open discussion. I don't have exact ideas on charges and punishments - maybe contract law, financial compensation, some kind of record for potential future spouses, mandatory rehabilitation - I don't know.

Quite odd to just shrug and dismiss it without thinking a little bit deeper especially when you have no experience of it and are rather dismissive and patronising to the posters here who have taken the time to share complex, nuanced experiences.

I do sort of think it's one of those things that is painful because of socialised choice to perceive it in a particular way. It would be pretty bloody awful to live in a country where adultery is a crime (they do exist, you could move to one I expect).

Stop talking irrelevant crap.

We are not discussing non monogamous relationships.

We are discussing monogamous relationships where one partner has been betrayed by the other. Betrayed because they believed and agreed they were in a monogamous relationship.

If you want to discuss non monogamous relationships then start another thread.

It’s perceived in a particular way because both parties have agreed to a monogamous relationship and one of them has deceived the other.

It's not murder. The resolution is to not see the person any more (if that's what you want).

We're discussing human beings. I don't think monogamy is intrinsic to our species. Aside from anything else it's very common for asymmetrical disinterest in sex to arise.

Not really about monogamy or not though is it, rather deceit and living a lie, in a situation where the other person's life isn't what they thought it was. So you're conning the other person really.