To want to move back to england with my 5 children

[tryingtogohome]

Hi sorry if this is all over the place

I live in Poland with my partner who is Polish and we have 5 boys 15 11 5 3 and 10 months and im pregnant again 25 weeks

I keep thinking about leaving him and going back to England but then i think im being stupid because ive been here so long and dont even know where id start anymore.

I dont really have anybody. No family. I grew up in care and havent spoken to anyone from my past for years and years.

Things have got worse between me and my partner. Hes always saying what a real man should be and boys shouldnt cry and things like that. My 15 year old argues with him constanly (constantly) now and the whole house feels tense all the time.

This is going to sound silly but i keep feeling like this baby is a girl and every time i say it he gets annoyed. Not shouting just annoyed and says he doesnt want a daughter and what would he do with a girl and says hopefully im wrong. Maybe im overreacting but it upsets me more than it should.

I dont know if its hormones.

I keep looking at Doncaster and Rotherham and Sheffield on my phone when everyone is asleep and then crying because i dont even know if my children could go to school there after living here all this time or where we would live.

I know people will say leave if youre unhappy but it isnt that easy when youve got this many children and no money and nowhere to go.

Am i being unreasonable wanting to go back to England or does this sound completly mad after 11 years away

I do speak Polish, not perfectly but enough for day to day things and appointments and schools etc. I didnt when i first came here but i do now.

I dont really have any friends though. I had a couple years ago but not anymore. Everyone sort of drifted away and i dont really go anywhere without the children now.
All of the children are his. They were all born in England apart from the baby who is 10 months. He came early at 31 weeks and was in hospital for a while and thats part of whats panicing me this time because im pregnant again and keep worrying the same thing will happen.

I dont know about passports off the top of my head because my head is all over the place today. The older boys definitely have British passports. I think the younger ones do as well but I'd have to check.

Something happened yesterday that i cant stop thinking about. I went out with the baby and when i got back my partner had shaved my 3 year olds hair off. He had lovely little curls and now half his head is basically shaved. He said it was only hair and he was messing about but my little boy was crying and didnt want anyone looking at him.

Maybe that sounds stupid compared to bigger problems but it really upset me. Hes only 3.

There are plenty of people here doing that. This needs to be balanced with hard truth and reality.

It's a fairy tale to think she can just come back to the UK with 6 children. People advising her to do that are cruel.

What she needs is practical support and advice from agencies that can help her get in a better place to extricate herself from her relationship. This is going to be extremely hard and will take years. There is no quick fix.

Also if her son is getting into trouble, it is worth looking up violent crime stats against those of Poland. It seems like teens are stabbing/killing each other all the time - is that something you want to being a troubled young man into?

Not everyone can be accepted into the army. And his issues are only a tiny drop in the ocean

I’m sorry OP.

Such a tricky/shit situation.

I don’t have any practical advice regarding moving back to the U.K. but could you get involved in a hobby/activity in Poland? Even if it’s a coffee morning or floral arrangement in the local church? Just something to meet SOMEBODY and have adult conversation with. It sounds desperately lonely xx

I don’t need to ‘look it up’ - how patronising.

I won’t need care or pension or anything like that when I’m older because I’m probably not going to live long enough if I have any say in it. I have disengaged from most medical services and have paid for any education post-16.

There’s a difference between ‘bashing’ someone and pointing out that it will be an expensive endeavour and not necessarily practical.

Unless you are an expert in international law, perhaps don’t advise the OP on what she should do

It is pointless arguing about benefits, taxation or the nationality of the OP and her children.

She can't bring her children back to the UK to live without their father's permission. It's against international law and she could potentially lose custody to their father if she tries. No matter what their nationality.

Unfortunately it isn’t about her history anyway, it’s about the children.

Living in a run down area of the Uk, with a troubled young man who is vulnerable to get caught up in crime and with no prospect of getting out of it is not okay.

The husband presumably let her come over here to give birth? So if she moved out to another part of Poland, she could have a decent life.

But apparently it’s okay for posters to try to look like the good guys by telling her to pack up and come on over.

I hope the OP looks into it properly to weigh up the options and ensure she’s not ending up in any even worse situation

I agree. If the OP needs to leave her marriage, her best interests and that of her children will be into stay in Poland and separate there. It's the only legal way. So she needs to look at what support is available on Poland.

As an aside it is worth making all women aware of the Hague rules. Even if you are British, your children's father is British and all your children are British, if you emigrate you usually can't come home with your children to live without their fathers permission. Think very carefully before emigrating with children or if you're likely to have children.

I genuinely wonder if people didn’t think the state would support them regardless of their poor decisions whether they would make those poor decisions?

She won’t be a tax payer for years if at all. Looking at the welfare bill now we need to stop and take a good look at what we are enabling?

Also those people if they were asked to support her with money or somewhere to stay will presumably have a very good reason why it’s for others to do that.

A friend of mine took in an Ukraine lady and her daughter a few years ago. It ended very badly and friend had to literally demand that the local authority took them on.

As it happens I am actually an expert in international law so Im not advising OP to just move here without her husband’s consent. If she separates from him though he might not be as keen to share custody of 6 kids and he might actually end up allowing her to move back.

as to you I really doubt that at an old age you just will decide not to use medical services or care services

regardless your attitude is not nice at all. Economically she brought into the world 6 potential workers and taxpayers when birth rates are falling so she definitely is no less valuable member of society than you or someone else

Oh my god. Her children are entitled to British citizenship whether they were born in the UK or not. It’s just easier with UK birth certificate from bureaucratic pov.

Oh really. You deserve a star! Aren’t you so amazing, so much better than the OP!

SMH

It’s not “the Hague rules”.
it is specific Hague convention (On child abduction) and not all countries are even party to it. And it is only about returning children back if they were wrongly removed across international borders.
whether the family courts award primary custody to mother or father or share, whether they insist on child residing in the country even if primary custody parent wants to move depends on family law of a particular country. Some habitually award primary custody to mother, some to father, and some are not big on enforcing parental contact and that the child stays in the country.

but the bottom line is that yes, people should consider this before moving. Ideally get legal advice. It’s very nuanced.

WTH Ukrainian lady has to do with this??

You do seem rather angry for some reason.

You can think what you like. I don’t care, but any legal expert would normally make sure they were in possession of all the facts and documents before giving advice.

I think the OP should actually speak to someone in real life instead of relying on strangers on a chat forum.

I do hope you are now going to go after all the others on the thread who dared suggest it wasn’t a good idea

where was I giving her legal advice?? And I certainly wasn’t advising her to move here without her husband’s consent.

and yes I’m angry. Facing cruel and sanctimonious people even on a chat forum makes me feel angry.

Black. Because we cannot support and fund everyone. Hence the huge welfare bill.

Yes I know it's more nuanced than what I stated there, depending on the country the situation may differ, but the bottom line is that people in general shouldn't emigrate assuming that if it all goes wrong and their relationship breaks down they can just come home with their children. Even if they are all British citizens.

That’s Mumsnet for you. 90% responses to the area that I’m a specialist in are at best rubbish, at worst dangerous. There’s a poster on this thread who doesn’t even seem to know that different countries have different laws.

Feel free to direct that anger at anyone else who can see that she will be potentially making her situation worse 🤷‍♀️

But ‘be kind’, amirite?

Yes completely agree with that!

That along with relationship guidance should be taught in schools.

I definitely think lots of people haven't a clue and to be honest I wouldn't have thought moving between 1st world countries would have been an issue either or even moving between parts of the UK.

I'd heard the tales of dads taking children to middle east and mums not being able to get them back or access to them.

But I'd never have thought it was an issue between western 1st world countries that a woman wouldn't be able to return to her home country in event of her relationship breaking down.

I actually can't believe the government ever encouraged that to happen in the first place.

We wouldn't encourage families to take any other stranger off the streets.