To want to move back to england with my 5 children

[tryingtogohome]

Hi sorry if this is all over the place

I live in Poland with my partner who is Polish and we have 5 boys 15 11 5 3 and 10 months and im pregnant again 25 weeks

I keep thinking about leaving him and going back to England but then i think im being stupid because ive been here so long and dont even know where id start anymore.

I dont really have anybody. No family. I grew up in care and havent spoken to anyone from my past for years and years.

Things have got worse between me and my partner. Hes always saying what a real man should be and boys shouldnt cry and things like that. My 15 year old argues with him constanly (constantly) now and the whole house feels tense all the time.

This is going to sound silly but i keep feeling like this baby is a girl and every time i say it he gets annoyed. Not shouting just annoyed and says he doesnt want a daughter and what would he do with a girl and says hopefully im wrong. Maybe im overreacting but it upsets me more than it should.

I dont know if its hormones.

I keep looking at Doncaster and Rotherham and Sheffield on my phone when everyone is asleep and then crying because i dont even know if my children could go to school there after living here all this time or where we would live.

I know people will say leave if youre unhappy but it isnt that easy when youve got this many children and no money and nowhere to go.

Am i being unreasonable wanting to go back to England or does this sound completly mad after 11 years away

I do speak Polish, not perfectly but enough for day to day things and appointments and schools etc. I didnt when i first came here but i do now.

I dont really have any friends though. I had a couple years ago but not anymore. Everyone sort of drifted away and i dont really go anywhere without the children now.
All of the children are his. They were all born in England apart from the baby who is 10 months. He came early at 31 weeks and was in hospital for a while and thats part of whats panicing me this time because im pregnant again and keep worrying the same thing will happen.

I dont know about passports off the top of my head because my head is all over the place today. The older boys definitely have British passports. I think the younger ones do as well but I'd have to check.

Something happened yesterday that i cant stop thinking about. I went out with the baby and when i got back my partner had shaved my 3 year olds hair off. He had lovely little curls and now half his head is basically shaved. He said it was only hair and he was messing about but my little boy was crying and didnt want anyone looking at him.

Maybe that sounds stupid compared to bigger problems but it really upset me. Hes only 3.

The circumstances are irrelevant. You are saying that we should support someone with 6 kids and little or no prospect of getting work just because their marriage is shit?

Presumably she would expect the council to magic up a place big enough for her huge family as well as educating them, providing even more healthcare (on top of paying for her to have every kid but one here) and giving her substantial benefits for them all.

If he hadn't persuaded her to move countries the UK would be supporting her any way.

Charity begins at home, as a nation we should support UK people before we support asylum seekers or anyone else.

She must have been very young when she met him, absolute most 25. And a kid out the UK care system.

I'll take a guess she was actually a teen mum, groomed by him, the UK absolutely should support her.

Can you find a reason to come back to UK around 30 weeks and then stay? The problem is The Hague convention which means you cannot take the children from the country where they are ordinarily resident if their father objects. Their nationality is irrelevant.

What would he do if you refused to return to Poland? Would he allow you to travel without him but with all the DC?

Could you convince him to allow you and the kids to stay with his family in the UK for a while while the baby is born? Once you are all here long enough hopefully he cant force the kids to be returned.

I doubt you will be legally allowed to take children to the UK without father's permission. Will he give it?

This girl has been in care. She was raised as a ward of the state. Many other people who get into this situation would have family help- a parent /s who might put you up and help you get back on your feet.

I'm not saying she should return as it would be seen as kidnapping but can people on this thread have some compassion for the OP??

Exactly she's still having babies so can't be older than 40
Her oldest is 15.
At most she was 25 with a baby and no family support

I suspect she was probably a lot younger.
And is still in her early 30s.

What does that have to do with it? Eligibility for government money isn’t dependent on whether someone had made unfortunate choices.

Because growing up in care without the guidance of parents or a family has probably led to these poor choices. Plus it doesn't just take one person to make a baby? The responsibility should surely lie with the husband too?

If you fell on hard times who would you run to? Who would look after you?

Agreed.
It's also well known that abusive men use pregnancy to trap women.

I really feel for this girl. I honestly hope she can get home with her kids.

There is a bit of me is almost hoping he's still using a UK address and claiming benefits from those kids. Because that makes it harder for him to fight to keep them in Poland.

Habitual residence. My friend couldn't get child benefits for his daughter returning from Spain for a certain amount of months

Presumably if they had lived here all along at least one of the adults would have at least been paying tax

And if she returns she will pay tax, like everyone else, it won't be long before her oldest is out of school anyway.

Seriously people need to have some empathy.

Would you want to stay in a foreign country, isolated with a different culture, little chance to make friends, or build a support network.

All because someone seemed attractive when you were very young and very vulnerable?

I've been reading on and off since i posted and i keep seeing people saying im only interested in moving back for benefits and honestly its really upsetting.

Im not.

If i wanted an easy life i wouldn't have spent the last 11 years here raising children.

The reason im even thinking about England is because i want to protect my children from how things are becoming at home.

People keep talking about my oldest as though hes some terrible kid because i mentioned the shoplifting and trouble at school.

Hes not a bad kid.

Hes angry.

Theres a difference.

I dont blame him for being angry either.

Imagine being 15 and having your dad constantly aiming homophobic slurs at you because hes decided you must be gay.

My son says he isnt.

Not that it would matter if he was.

The reason his dad thinks it is because hes not interested in dating and doesnt spend all his time talking about girls.

My partner says all teenage boys think about girls and sex all the time and because my son doesnt talk about it he must be gay.

Its ridiculous.

And now my son is old enough to answer back and challenge him and it turns into arguments constantly.

People keep saying make friends and get a job as though ive never thought of that.

Before i got pregnant this time i told him i wanted a job.

The youngest was only a few months old but i was starting to feel more like myself again and wanted something outside the house.

He kept trying to talk me out of it.

Then i found out i was pregnant again.

This baby wasnt planned.

I know people probably wont believe that.

But after everything that happened with my youngest i genuinely thought our family was complete.

I had a traumatic birth, emergency c section, a premature baby and weeks of worry.

He was still in hospital and my partner was already talking about sex.

At the time i didnt really think about how odd that was.

Now i do.

When i found out i was pregnant again he was thrilled.

Kept talking about another baby.

Now suddenly because i think it might be a girl he doesnt seem nearly as enthusiastic.

Every mention of a daughter gets an eye roll or a comment or him saying hopefully not.

As for his family, people keep saying maybe they could persuade him.

They cant.

We were supposed to all go to England for Christmas and see everyone and then he cancelled it at the last minute.

His brother and sister were furious.

They havent seen the children since my 3 year old was born

They would probably have seen them last year if we'd gone.

His attitude is always if they want to see the children they can come here.

Something else a few people have pointed out that i hadn't really thought about.

I turned 19 a few months after my oldest was born.

My partner was 26.

Then i was 22 turning 23 when our second was born and he was 30.

We moved to Poland a few months later.

At the time i thought i was very grown up and knew exactly what i was doing.

Now im 34 and looking at my eldest getting closer to the age i was when i met his dad and it feels very strange.

Sorry this is long.

I think writing things down is making me realise how much ive just accepted over the years without really questioning it.

When exactly do you think she can pay tax? It will be 5 years before her youngest will be at school and in that time she and her family are likely to need to be fully supported with benefits. And they will need a fairly big house. Plus she would have to be able to afford childcare if she does work.

The eldest is likely to need extra support as well.

It’s an awful situation but don’t think the answer is to come back to the UK.

She doesn’t have family here so she presumably wouldn’t be any better anyway. Why not move to a similar country as someone upthread suggested.

its possible to empathise while also not being able to accommodate her wishes

Nobody is saying you wabt to come back for the benefits but nevertheless you would presumably rely on the welfare system to feed and house you and the family.

How will you be able to afford childcare if you do get a job eventually?

Have you never heard of VAT???
Nobody seems to get by without some 'non-essentials' in life.

She is still very young, as I suspected, with about 40 years of working life in front of her. Her children won't be young forever.

That’s if she doesn’t get pregnant again. She’s only 34

Op I guessed you were very young when you had your first baby.
So you were 18, and practically groomed by a 25 year old.

Be very very careful with contraception after this one, it is a controlling tactic to keep women pregnant. If this is likely to be another c-section ask for your tubes to be tied while they are in there.

I do think your starting point is finding the Polish equivalent of women aid. And go from there.

Can you not realise she's in an abusive relationship, with someone who wants to keep her pregnant???

She presumably would want to be with another man or have more children. She didn't plan the baby she is carrying.

dont listen to people who moan about the fact you may need welfare if you get back here.

im as far as from benefits person as it gets, high earner yada yada but you will not be the country’s biggest problem if you manage to get back, you know what I mean? If you need support you need support and I hope you’ll find a way to get on your feet and move back and find a job and be happy.

The trouble is that you have legal barriers to just move and you are in abusive / controlling relationship. Try to find out what support you have in Poland, Polish equivalent of women’s aid.

She will still need support until either she can afford childcare or her youngest is at senior school.

I empathise. But with the state education and healthcare being in the toilet right now (not to mention inadequate housing), I don’t think it will be the utopia she is hoping for.

Did she have the babies here legitimately or by bending the facts? Because the more she does that, the more likely she is to get caught.

If she really feels she has to come back then come back without the children to start with and at least get established. Living in some crappy B&B with all those children because the council can’t find better accommodation is in nobody’s best interests.

That’s disgusting. How much tax you personally pay? Are you a net contributor to the system?

usually the loudest are the ones who are net takers themselves

Again how can she find a job when her youngest child hasn’t even been born?

It is great to be supportive but it isn’t as easy as just turning up.

If they are put in a B&B then it’s going to be overcrowded and who knows what other people will be there? I have seen plenty of these places.