School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

[VividDenimTiger]

Posting here for traffic really. DD 14 has had issues in secondary school- we suspect ADHD to be honest. I am unravelling my own mid life ADHD traits at the moment too.

For DD, one of the things that manifests in school is persistent lateness. She just can’t organise herself to get to lessons on time. The school has now brought in a punishment for lateness where anyone late more than 5 mins gets sent to a punishment room for the lesson. Needless to say DD is now missing loads of lessons because of her lateness.

I know that it’s annoying for teachers when kids are late for lessons but it feels like this policy unfairly targets kids, like my DD, who might or do have some issues with timekeeping because of other things going on.

Aibu? I am trying to unravel some of this for DD (and myself) but I am really angry about how punitive this policy is- it feels like it disadvantages kids who genuinely have issues with organising their time and themselves. The corridors are really busy in school and she gets upset and overwhelmed and that doesn’t help all of this.

No it's not. Any deaf child who wants to be in mainstream can be mainstream.

Evidenced disability

Before any disability is evidenced it is suspected and tested for.

Did you know that many deaf children don't get quick diagnosis either. Some are waiting months for audiology and then if this shows deafness - this doesn't mean diagnosed they will go back after so many months to see if it has remained the same. They don't always give hearing aids promptly either.

So should these deaf pupils get no adjustments either until the disability is evidenced

Or should we be supporting based on assumed situation.

Let's be real if you don't need an adjustment you aren't going to use it - how many pupils that have no need of a wheelchair would use one ?

Maybe for a short time just to see what its like or messing about but no pupil is opting to use a wheelchair day in day out that they don't need.

Adhd secondary school aged child mum here.
Laminated map. Laminated timetable. Digital watch. Go through the timetables eith her. Discuss her strategies for managing this
Email senco and head of year. Explain how YOU and YOUR daughtrr are going to help address this issue. Then also request that they also come up with some support.
For context.. in my sons year, there are 87 kids out of 267 that have a confimed ADHD diognosis. I suspect this is similar in all schools.
You can not just blame adhd and then exprct the school to provide all thd solutions.
There are likely 10 kids in her class with adhd diagnosis and the onus is on you and her to try your best to help.
I have been dealing with sencos around adhd for the past 10 years as my son has been first picked up as having adhd by nursery.
Trust me when I say, if you do not show up and take the lead in managing your daughters adhd and at her age she should also be taking owbership and learning about it and learning her own strategies.. noone else is going to bother.
You have to put the effort in yourself too.
Adhd is not an excuse, its hard, its more effort but its not a get out of jail free card.
I really hate people that use it as an excuse.
I have it too. So does my partner and our two children.
Find strategies that work. Tell the school what you are doing and then request their help to support you in implementing them.

Interesting that you're talking about "evidence".

When we noticed DD was struggling with hearing, we notified her teacher that we thought she had a hearing problem and she immediately made adjustments, such as sitting her at the front and taking a moment to repeat key points 1-2-1 with her. She didn't say she wasn't doing it until she had a diagnosis, or that it wasn't possible for every child in the class to sit on the front row, or that it would take her half an hour to speak individually to every child, or that she just needed to try harder to listen.

We then got a referral to an audiologist who confirmed that she had glue ear and if it doesn't clear up on its own they will look into grommits.

She also has suspected AuDHD and again, the teacher has just made reasonable adjustments to accommodate that, such as giving advanced warning of changes to the timetable, ensuring she has a visual timetable, supporting her with transitions etc., whilst she waits for an official diagnosis.

And even those deaf children needing/ wanting specialist provision are likely to be in mainstream because the LA don't like funding specialist placements.
Which is why deaf pupils underperform in education because too many aren't having needs met

Schools are an absolute mess

It's evidenced from the fact that they obviously can't hear anyone. It's an objective fact. That's not the same as here where suddenly a teenager is being disruptive and so more evidence is requested than mum's opinion.

Yes because the teacher agreed/agrees and also sees and believes your daughter is struggling with multiple disabilities.

I do understand the school's dilemma. Allowing some children to leave lessons early just creates more chaos for everyone a d essentially would cut the lesson short for everyone.

Is your dd at least arriving on time for the first period, when she can make it early to avoid overwhelm?

Does she have noise cancelling headphones to wear in the corridor?

Is there a trusted friend that can help keep her focused and on track walking between classes?

I'm quite shocked at the responses on here. I'm not sure people realise that it's schools failing to help with these, potentially minor, issues that leads to children not finishing school or ending up in AP units. Those units are absolutely fantastic but we simply can't afford for any child who has an issue like this which should be easily fixed, to spiral and end up there. I mean that from a financial point of view.

What’s the alternative? That we have to make endless adjustments for the 40-ish % of kids who have disabilities? I don’t think so. School is a place for learning. The teachers have to be able to teach without distractions. Pupils have to learn strategies to help them cope. It’s a parents job to help their child manage.

It's still not evidenced. Many deaf children are accused of not listening before diagnosis and even afterwards by some teachers

Because she has a lovely teacher who starts from the assumption that we love and know our child and wouldn't make up a fake disability. It's not exactly rocket science to work out ND. She sent out the forms to us and it didn't take long for us to realise that the answer to almost every question (does your child frequently lose their belongings? Do they find transitions distressing? Do they forget instructions before completing them?) was "Very much". It will take 3+ years now for what is already obvious to be confirmed by a psychiatrist.

Sounds like OP is not getting the same grace, despite the fact it sounds like their GP believes them.

But the school aren’t allowing some strategies that are widely used by adults (including in the workplace) and that could potentially be helpful here.

It’s not that OP’s daughter won’t try them, or can’t find strategies. It’s that the school don’t even seem willing to try.

”Just getting on with it” isn’t a particularly helpful strategy, by the way, before anyone suggests that one!

And other teachers may have disagreed because they are NOT medical experts and can NOt diagnose.

Teachers often don't see ND because they are NOT ND experts. They also can not diagnose a broken leg, deafness, blindness or anything else.

They may suspect and the may advise a referral but they can not diagnose.
They may think bob is hearing and be wrong b cause they are not doctors

So SEN pupils shouldn't have an education?

Maybe if we got schools right for SEN kids it would benefit every child and not disadvantage huge numbers of SEN and/or disabled pupils.

Count your lucky stars.
The UK depending where you are could be 4-6 years for ADHD / ASN diagnosis.

Exactly, I went all the way through school being told I was lazy, disorganised, and badly behaved. Not one teacher stopped for a moment to say, "Hey, this child seems to be really trying and want to succeed so why is she always 10 minutes late and bringing the wrong equipment?" I got a diagnosis at 24, it took 5 minutes with a psychiatrist, and 24 years of struggling along, not even masking very well but going unnoticed by "professionals".

I understand learning difficulties make things harder but you have to find ways around these things and you can't just expect special treatment. If she is consistently late for school investigate why she is late and find ways to remedy it, you can't just say 'oh she is SEN' and ask the school to let it go, they won't. How does she get to school? If she makes her own way, maybe she needs to get up or leave for school earlier. If she is unorganised in the morning maybe she needs to arrange her bag and uniform etc. the night before so she is ready on time to leave for school. If she walks maybe suggest doing the walk with her one weekend to see how long it takes and if she is getting distracted on the way. Is there a schoolmate she can walk with? Can you, a partner or a friend drive her in to make sure she is there on time? Do they run a breakfast club if you need to drop her off early? You can't let this continue, and even if she does have ADHD the school won't accept that as an excuse for persistant tardiness.

This reminds me of the type of 'advise' I would get when my one child wasn't sleeping (they have a sleep disorder which is now medicated).

I was surviving on virtually no sleep, my child didn't seem to need to sleep and we we begging for help.

We kept getting the obvious advise.
Bath, relaxing, lighting, story

When your child is having difficulties even if you had grown up under a rock and didn't know the obvious techniques they would come across these on first internet search. If you have to ask it pretty obvious the normal options aren't working

what is an acceptable level of adjustment? None at all? Very minor ones?

Does it? What do hearing-impaired students do then?