School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

[VividDenimTiger]

Posting here for traffic really. DD 14 has had issues in secondary school- we suspect ADHD to be honest. I am unravelling my own mid life ADHD traits at the moment too.

For DD, one of the things that manifests in school is persistent lateness. She just can’t organise herself to get to lessons on time. The school has now brought in a punishment for lateness where anyone late more than 5 mins gets sent to a punishment room for the lesson. Needless to say DD is now missing loads of lessons because of her lateness.

I know that it’s annoying for teachers when kids are late for lessons but it feels like this policy unfairly targets kids, like my DD, who might or do have some issues with timekeeping because of other things going on.

Aibu? I am trying to unravel some of this for DD (and myself) but I am really angry about how punitive this policy is- it feels like it disadvantages kids who genuinely have issues with organising their time and themselves. The corridors are really busy in school and she gets upset and overwhelmed and that doesn’t help all of this.

I mean it is surprising how many secondary schools actually don't have working lifts/lifts to every part of the building/lifts at all and the difficulties placed in the way of disabled staff also (my friend had to leave classroom teaching for lack of simple adjustments like moving her teaching room to the ground floor).

Not the point of the thread, but it's not straightforward even for the physical disabilities.

Ok, classmates

@HumberSquidno need to be a dick.

Getting places of time, regardless of how busy it might be, is pretty necessary in adult life if you have a job with a commute. Just one example.

All the more reason to support children at school to find ways of being on time then, surely? If punishments for lateness aren't working, then something else needs to happen. But to find the right strategy, you need to know what's causing the lateness. If a child is hanging around somewhere quiet until the crowd dies down, then it could be sensory, requiring maybe ear defenders. If they're late because they play football and then have to refill their water bottle before the next lesson, then time management is the cause and a strategy would be for the child to set an alarm 5 mins earlier than the end of lunch bell. Lots of children do this naturally, like breathing. Many nd children struggle more and need more scaffolding. It doesn't mean they'll always be late, it means they need more support to be on time than simply 'consequences'. Schools aren't running a business, they're preparing children for life. Punishing them for the things they find more difficult is not preparing them for life. Giving them the tools to overcome the things they find hard is preparing them for life.

But that's the point. There's absolutely no evidence to say that the difficulty is due to disability. The vibe from the school response suggests petulance and mum wanting allowances. There has to be some sort of bar beyond them and their mum just saying they have ADHD. Going and asking the GP to refer to the assessment list and then doing so based on self reporting shouldn't justify disrupting other kids and staff if the school don't support the suggestion it's additional need.

Flexing work is a false equivalence. You can't flex school because the lesson ends at a set time. Flexing work means you end work 8 hours after you started, whenever that start is.
A better equivalent would be "are you allowed to be late for a meeting at 11am every Wednesday?".

Is there a reason that she doesn’t want to go to the lesson and is procrastinating?

All of them surely. Why would they not since it's so easy?

Oh, so you read the OP's posts and failed to understand the issue? Awkward. Here's a hint: its nothing to do with commuting.

Which would be fine if the wait list for assessment was at all reasonable but as it is years of waiting you cant just leave a pupil unsupported.
Support can not wait because it is well known that the difficulties ND people face get worse if left unsupported

How would something like wearing earplugs be disruptive to everyone else? Yet the school aren’t even allowing that as a trial.

Avoiding having to get from one place to another with a tight deadline whilst navigating a hugely crowded place is something that people can actually plan to avoid doing other than very occasionally if they are so inclined. So maybe once a year at the airport, occasional concerts etc.
Many people chose a job where they can work from home, walk to work, drive door to door or cycle. Personally, I’m ok in crowds, but I’ve made a conscious choice to always work in places that are no more than 45 mins away by bike.

ADHD, AuADHD family here - you have my sympathy. I appreciate to diagnose ADHD you need a track record of poor exec functions plus schools do need to manage a lots of kids so its tricky ... but it makes my blood boil when I read this sort of stuff as kicking a struggling kid not OK either.

Schools don't give dentition to dyslexic kids for poor spelling but they do give detention to ADHD/AuADHD kids for poor exec functions / sensory overload so basically dentition for showing the traits of their disabilities!

Look at amazon for some noise cancelling ear buds she can pop in during class moves.

Sen team not good speak to the head of year/ school / board and if that's not working go to local MP... common sense must prevail and she would not be the only kid in this situation so they would have experience a GP referral should be enough.

My daughter's school once tried to give her detention for displaying her ADHD traits and I screamed blue murder and they never tried again.

I didn't say it did.

My ds left early when he had a cast on to avoid the crowds and did not miss anything. They almost always finish a few minutes early anyway so that the kids are packed up and ready to leave at the end of the lesson.

I think you missed the bit this is not a timing issue she is struggling with sensory overload walking amongst the throng of kids changing classrooms at the same time. She's not asking for to excuse lateness - quite the opposite she is asking for her child to leave class one minute early to avoid busy corridors. Kids with broken limbs etc leave class early to have more time to walk to another class.

Common sense says it wouldn't be safe to wear earplugs in a corridor that has so many people and so much noise in it, someone finds it difficult to walk the length of it.

Yet the law absolutely sees this as a perfectly reasonable adjustment in a school setting and many schools manage it just fine. So your opinion that it's unreasonable is wholly irrelevant.

What's that got to do with it being discriminatory not to make reasonable adjustments?

You're missing the point. School clearly don't agree that it's an additional need requiring adjustments. So there's literally just mum and daughter saying it's not fair for her to be expected to fall in line.

Rubbish. Earplugs cut down the noise, they don’t eliminate it. It’s perfectly safe.

No deaf children in mainstream school then.

Schools sadly are crap at recognizing SEN/Disabilities. The are resistant and far too slow to add adjustments

Hence so many families being left having to home educate

I understand it seems counter-active for them to miss lessons as a punishment. However in real life people have to be at certain places at certain times. You cannot function as an adult if frequently late for things.

There must be strategies she can use to practice and improve?

A school can’t operate properly if so many people arrive late and interrupt class.

That's a balanced decision made against different risks for a child with an evidenced disability so not comparable