To not believe no dad is better

[NotConvincedd]

I often hear people say "no dad is better than a crap dad", and I'm not sure I completely agree.
What strikes me is that a lot of the people who say this then go on to explain that their child has an amazing stepdad who's raised them as his own. But that's not really the same as having no father figure at all, is it?
To be clear, I'm not talking about abusive fathers in those situations, no contact is obviously the better option. I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.
My thoughts are that for many children, some sort of relationship is better than none. It's often said children who grow up with absent fathers tend to have worse outcomes overall, and most children seem to want a relationship with their parent, even if that parent isn't perfect. Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be.
AIBU to think that "no dad is better than a crap dad" is often too simplistic?

It’s not really shutting them out when they’re not interested in seeing the children. Sadly the children will find out the hard way whether he visits or not. I would want to stop him but I wouldn’t stop him for the children, otherwise he’d blame you in the future, they could too.
It’s a shit situation.
In saying that, I don’t think it’s good for a child to have him pop in and out of their life.

Better than nothing

No offense but your bar seems to be vet low for your childs wellbeing. They also need emotio ally safeguarding! And a man who is inconsistent and unreliable isn't a man you can adequate assess as safe physically for your child either....

Well would SS say they couldn’t see a child for
that or a court? Nope.

what are you talking about? People do say that allowing a man back in after he's repeatedly let his children down, over and over again, is not a good idea. And I stand by that - chlidren start to heal from their father's behaviour and then bam, he's back with wild promises that turn into nothing, poor behaviour and complete cluelessness about what the child needs/wants or who the child is.

But no one thinks dads should just be shut out for no reason. if they are suggesting this, it's because they've already seen the damage his inconsistency has done and, in most cases, the children are now in a better place.

Are you a man who has decided he wants back into his children's lives? Because you are being weirdly obtuse about this.

That’s a very very low bar you have OP. Would you say the same for a person in a romantic relationship? Well as long as he hasn’t done anything criminally chargeable it’s all okay?

My friends now adult children say no dad would have been better.

As young kids their dad would promise them his time and gifts they wanted that didn’t materialise. They were left sad and upset for days when he didn’t turn up to take them swimming, didn’t turn up to spend the weekend with him or when he told them he’d booked a holiday for them but he hadn’t. He also used to promise them toys and consoles for their birthdays and at Xmas, only to let them down.

When they were little, they just cried. As they got older they started to think they had done something wrong to make Dad not turn up and not buy them things he said he would.

I remember one of them saying she must be naughty and bad because dad hadn’t bought her a birthday gift. My friends was th one left feeling guilty despite giving them a great birthday.

As they got into the teen years, they understood it was him that was the problem, but the damage was done. One of the kids became a people pleaser and the other was angry. Both struggled with mum having a life of her own and admitted they were worried she’d forget them and not prioritise them like their dad. They needed so much reassurance, one needed therapy as she said she felt so worthless. When she had friendship issues she said it’s no wonder people didn’t like her as even her own dad didn’t.

Their mum started to not tell them when he was meant to be coming so it would just be a bonus if he did show up, but the kids used to get anxious with no warning of going with him and worried he’d forget them somewhere or leave them somewhere with someone else, like he often did. They couldn’t trust him and didn’t feel safe when he was ‘looking after them’.

As adults, they both struggle to trust men so hold back in relationships. They feel this is due to their relationship with their dad. My friend is such a good mum but she wasn’t able to take away the pain her kids felt and the damage he has done to their self esteem.

My friend could write a book on the damage that having an unreliable and inconsistent father has done. It may not be classed as abuse by some people, but I think it is a type of abuse really.

What do you class as doing "nothing wrong"?

I mean, I think there are plenty of people who grow up with a father who isn't involved day to day, but in the context of their lives it's fine. Consistency being more important. The issue is when a dad is around, then disappears. When he can't be reached by phone. When he doesn't respond when the child needs him. And inevitably, when these men DO reappear, thei rbehaiour is equally inconsistent. Happy and fun one day, moody and irritable the next. Lets the child climb on the highest climbing frame at th epark today, tells them they're too small the next. Attempts to make the child feel guilty if they don't behave how they should etc etc etc.

Only you can tell if your child is better off with or without their dad, but I think it's interesting that it appears that in real life people are telling you NOT to let him back in.

In your opinion

That’s a really, really low bar. I try to aim for better than ‘well Social Services wouldn’t take my kids into care for it’ when parenting my children, but I guess we’re all different.
Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm.

I don't know if my bio dad is alive or dead (given that I'm 60, probably the latter). I barely knew him and I was somewhere between 8-9 years old the last time I saw him. My outcome has been great but would probably not have been if that waste of skin was still in my life.

Nope, im just sick of people pretending an absent father doesnt have a negative affect on children

Who says it doesn’t have a negative affect? Surely they’re just saying that it’s the least worst option?

No one knows that

No one, EVER has said that.

Most people think the harm of an absent father can be somewhat easier to manage and the children will come out at the end a bit better, than when the children have to deal with the inconsistency and constant let down of a shitty, inconsistent dad.

I'm giving up. If you had a different opinion and reasons fo rit, fine. But you don't. you just don't seem to understand what the difference is between "it's slightly less harmful if you do one thing vs if you do this other thing. But both are harmful."

I'm confident that in real life your family and friends despair of how you keep letting your ex back in to your children's lives and the harm it's doing.

Having a shit father has a negative affect on kids. That can come in many guises. Absent/unreliable/abusive… it all has a negative affect.

No. As we have mentioned many times already, that’s their opinion based on their experiences. Your opinion is different, based on yours.

And that’s their opinion but it’s not their children or their choice

Maybe people in your life are sick of you pretending that having an unreliable father isn’t negatively affecting your kids?

I mean they probably would get involved for neglect and child abandonment if they hadn't abandoned them to you as the other parent. I guarantee if you replicated his behaviour and left the kids with a friend and said you'd be back every few months that SS would take issue with this. Having. Said that, social services bar is on the floor and you should want better than the bare minimum for your kids. You're starting to sound a bit like you're the Dad and trying to justify being able to swan in and out of your kids lives.

When my mum divorced my dad due to his alcoholism we didn’t see him for a few years and I genuinely think the reason I have a good relationship with him now is because we didn’t see him then. I don’t think I would have forgiven him for being shit, and my older siblings took more time to forgive him because they remember him being a drunk differently to me (I was too young to understand and just thought he was silly).

The people I know who’s mums stayed with their dads “for the kids” are a lot more fucked up than the children of divorce I know. We really underestimate how much children (even small ones) pick up on resentment and animosity.

Best option - mum and dad who love one another, second best is amicable divorce with a good coparenting relationship. A flakey dad isn’t the end of the world, but I’ve seen it have a very profound impact on people. An abusive dad or a nasty dad is not worth having around. A nice grandad or uncle can be a great substitute. When my dad was off being a bum before he got sober I spent a lot of time with my grandad as did my brothers and had my dad never stepped up, I think he would have been a fine substitute and definitely better than a drunk.

OP is your usual standard of care for your children just “well SS/police wouldn’t take them for this so its great”?

No but you can’t just mark up safeguarding issues

No they aren’t holding onto any potential or fantasy, they don’t expect anything from him but would still rather have him “there” than have him disappear completely. You only ever have one father and I was giving a valid example of someone in this situation might feel.