Was this neighbour "entitled to say what he wants in his own garden?"

[MrCollinsandhisboiledpotatoes]

My friend shared a funny story this morning.

Her garden ends in a six foot fence, which backs onto another garden for the house behind her. They are large, very long gardens.

The man of this house, clearly thinking he had found a secluded spot away from his kids, was having a VERY explicit conversation with his wife on the phone, at the end of his garden, right against the fence. He was describing in great detail exactly what he was going to do to her when she returned home from her trip.

Trouble is, friend and her kids were sat right on the other side of the fence. They have a decking area there with chairs, tables, kids toys etc.

She couldn't let this conversation go on in earshot of her kids (3yo and 5yo) so she cheerfully shouted over the fence "very happy for your wife mate, but my kids are two feet away from you!" To which she heard a fumbled "shit, hold on" and then silence.

She reiterated this story to us, we all laughed, and agreed she did the right thing.

Retold story to husband just now who laughed, but said really, she had no right to tell him anything and embarrass him. It's his garden, he can have that conversation if he wants, and she should have moved the kids away until it stopped.

I disagree and think if you're going to live around other people you need to think of other people.

Who's right?
Reasonable - me and my friends
unreasonable - my DH

If the kids were older i'd have understood if she wanted to let him know they were all sitting there by talking loudly or scraping the chairs or something, but 3 and 5....they hardly understand the spoken word. Just start talking to your kids loudly and bashing their toys around. Performative nonesense from the friend IMO.

Sound carries so no, it is not OK to have a clearly audible conversation of that kind within earshot of the neighbours, just as it would not be OK to have a highly racist conversation.

If he had continued after you warned him you could hear, it would be a criminal offence , Outraging public decency, which does not need to be in a public place but merely where the public, ie you, might hear or see it.

I disagree with your DH-you need to be aware of who can hear you!

I worked in a school which has houses around the edge of the school field where children play in the summer. Often just sitting in little groups on the grass. The HT has had to speak to people in gardens before for things they were saying/doing in their own gardens which were not appropriate when they were that close to children!

I think you can put your decking where it suits you. If you share walls you should remember they have ears and act accordingly.

Do you have children? They might not understand - but they might - but they tend to repeat what they have heard i.e. 'daddy, what's fellatio?' in public. But noise to make sure neighbour knows he is overheard is probably better than shouting over the fence.

That was the subject of a court case some 40 years ago as I recall. A guy was wanking at a window in front of a bus queue. Some women complained to the police. He argued that he could do what he wanted in his own home. The judge found him guilty of indecent exposure.

This one was more recent: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/tried-ask-sex-offender-crime-34058074

Reminds me of when I was on a train in Italy recently with my 12 year old. We are both bilingual English-French but only speak English together.

A couple of women opposite us were chatting away in Italian.

Next thing you know, they are going into detail about one woman's new boyfriend and how far they've gone in bed together. In French. Presumably so no one understands them. Except DS and I do 😳

I didn't know what to do as DS and I had spent the previous 30 minutes talking in English so it would be very strange to start speaking in French.

If I had a child there, I would have let them know that I understood what they were saying by the expression on my face!

Not unreasonable but I see both sides!
Yes he can say what he likes on his property but when it’s a conversation that can be heard by others he should be mindful!
Would he stand on the edge of his front garden having this conversation for passersbys to hear?
To me it’s the same, he’s on “his property” but he doesn’t own the air/sound space (probably not a word but you know what I mean!).
The neighbour was probably glad to be interrupted as more embarrassing to have the entire conversation and then realise you’ve been overheard!
Ridiculous of husband to expect the kids to have to come inside, and it begs the question why can’t the husband have that conversation in the privacy of his home while his wife’s away!
If he has kids in the house he should also realise that the neighbours kids don’t want to hear that either!

I would have turned to my child and said in French “oops don’t listen to that conversation”!

Thank you very much for googling this for us 😄😉
So it's established that you are allowed to wank/make sweet sweet love in your garden.
But it's illegal if you can be seen.

Question, and somewhat pertinent to this case...can you Google for us if it's legal/illegal if you are not seen, but heard?!

I await your favourable reply

In two minds. He has the right to use his garden for privacy but if your friend set theirs up so he never gets it.. also, if they regularly socialise / make noise right at the edge of his garden.. maybe he has decided to stop giving a sh*t. They can ask, but I don't think they can stop someone having a conversation in their own garden. They have the option of asking their children to play elsewhere or just remembering that kids that age don't understand what is being said and won't care anyway. Put some music on.

The choice you gave us at the end doesn't make sense.

I was hoping he wasn't as they had been chatting in Italian before and the conversation of 30 something year old women is just not interesting for a 12 year old.

I also continued our conversation over the top and hoped he wouldn't notice.

Fortunately one of them was being very coy and talking in euphemisms so, from what he said afterwards, it mostly went over his head.

Sheeeesh. How much help do you need with it?

"Who's right?
Reasonable - me and my friends
unreasonable - my DH"

Who's right? Vote reasonable i.e. not unreasonable if you agree with OP and friends

...if not, that then leaves you with the option of voting unreasonable if you agree with DH over the OP.

Could it maybe have been worded better? I guess. Is there any other logical comprehension of it? Nope.

I've come back to this post to see if it makes any sense through fresh eyes, but no.

It's like it's on the wrong thread 🤔

You should sent the children indoors and got close to the fence, you may have picked up a few tips!

Sounds like he's just read 50 Shades of Grey for the first time

Assuming he can read

Sounds like an absolute knob

Killjoy

Seroiusly, the police came out for a rude word?! We're fucked.

This comment is depressing for three reasons:

1. People's reading comprehension, or their ability/willingness to do anything beyond skim-reading if reading the first paragraph is getting worse and worse and more and more concerning. It's Mumsnet. It's an optional leisure activity. And yet still, people can't read it properly. I dread to think how they cope with more mundane reading like work tasks or important letters.

1. It's like people can't accept that married people do have sex with each other, that they can be excited to see one another and want to have kinky sex and phone sex with one another, so it simply must be an affair.

1. The sexism of "she was probably getting the dinner on"

I shall explain it one last time. It WAS his wife. She was not in the house, barefoot and pregnant and getting the dinner on. She was away on a trip. He was talking about the sex he was going to have with her on her return. The man was already having a conversation with her, on the phone, while in the house. My friend heard him approaching the back of his garden, on the phone the whole time. The conversation turned sexual when he reached the back of the garden, the goal being to get some privacy as far away from his own children as possible.
HTH.

I think if she'd gone round and told him off, she'd have been unreasonable.

She didn't, she just let him know that everyone could hear what he presumably thought was a private conversation.

Both right, although you could have saved him the embarrassment and given him the benefit of the doubt of having been overheard if you had called the children instead? Having said that, it was a shared public space and he should have been conscious of that.

No story here. He had a conversation that he thought was private. She told him there were kids there. He shut up. All cool.

Of course he can say what he wants in his own garden . Why is your sitting area right up against the adjoining fence ? Just move your kids away , I can't imagine they have the least bit of understanding or interest in what he was saying .