Aibu to think that clean eating isn’t that bad?

[arethereanyleftatall]

DD, 17, only eats ‘clean’. She eats like this because she says she feels much better on it, and for her that’s a priority above all else. And, to be fair to her, she’s thriving. Doing well at alevels, volunteering, working, and generally a wonderfully bright and joyous person to be around. This is in stark contrast to the gcse years with school refusal, period pains, excessive sleeping, no homework completed ever.
if it’s relevant, and so as not to drip feed, she ticks every adhd box at the top, but not diagnosed although we’re 4 years in now on the nhs list, and she’s got through the first few stages, and probably autism, but is able to mask so much, that that isn’t noticeable to the outside world.
daily menu for her would be steak, eggs, salmon, about 4 different fruits/veg, honey, all organic, and meat/fish/eggs only cooked in a special non Teflon pan with tallow. Drinks are filtered water only, and a hot drink with ginger, lemon.
I didn’t think this was too bad, expensive yes but I can afford it, but many of her peers are eating junk on the daily, and drinking alcohol, so compared to that, I feel like she’s ok. Yes, I know there’s lots in between that and balance would be key but I can’t force any near adult to eat, and certainly not DD for whom telling her what to do has the exact opposite effect.
anyway. On here last night, i discovered there’s a diagnosis for this - orthorexia, and it scared me. Oh, one last thing, it doesn’t stop her eating out socially, she’ll order steak and chips and I’ll eat her chips.

I don't think it sounds overly concerning. If she was somewhere without access to filtered water and thirsty would she drink tap water if she had to? If she would risk harming herself (dehydration) to stick rigidly to clean eating then that would indicate an issue.

Thank you @hididdlyho. Mostly, that’s untested because we have got access, so I don’t know. I think she would avoid all places where she wouldn’t be able to get filtered water, but she knows for example that would mean a travelling budget type trip to eg India wouldn’t be possible, but she’s fine with that. I am hoping she will grow out of this phase before that would be tested.

But it’s a really good question which I will raise with her.

I think from my research this morning, that seems to be the difference between this being a reasonable eating choice and an actual disorder - the lengths it would be taken to.

I’d never heard of orthorexia until recently, but I think it’s more restrictive than what you describe and involves hang ups about food.

I have always cooked traditionally, largely without recipes, but instead following instructions passed down from my mother and grandmother. I grew up and live in a rural location where it’s easy to buy local produce. Do we rarely have artificial or highly processed foods. Nevertheless, I will eat any food I am given and have brought my kids up to do the same. No fussy eating. No food exclusions. Good manners are just as important as eating well. So we do both.

Well, orthorexia is more than just “clean eating” but it can start off that way.
My sibling has orthorexia. She started off much like your DD but now she is in her forties and lives on a severely restricted diet. She only eats four types of food. They have to be bought from specific places and be specific brands/ types.
She boils and filters her water and won’t drink water otherwise.
She exercises excessively, is underweight and malnourished. Her bone density is awful and she fractures bones out of nothing.
She weighs a lot of her food.
She eats alone at work so nobody realises how strange her eating habits are.
She avoids eating with the family for the same reason.
She doesn’t like anyone to touch her food or prepare it for her. She needs to do it her own way as a ritual.
She is convinced that she has all sorts of food allergies and spent years doing elimination diets til she whittled it down to the few things she eats now.
She is adamant that she is eating healthily and cannot tolerate other food.
She sometimes asks to smell other people’s food because she wants it but “can’t have it”.
So that is the picture of someone with orthorexia.
It has actually made me really sad writing this all down.
I would keep an eye on your dd for increasing severity of food restriction, excessive weight loss and ritualistic behaviour around food especially if it stops her from enjoying things she used to like. Also for unfounded concerns about her health linked to her diet and anxiety around that.
“Clean eating” is not necessarily bad, it can be positive but I think any conscious restriction around food (not based on legitimate medical advice) can become addictive to some personalities. It gives a sense of structure and control and a reward system for the brain that can be a slippery slope into seriously disordered eating.
It is also very, very hard to convince someone with orthorexia that what they’re doing is not healthy because there is so much information available that supports what they’re doing and it is less obvious from the outside to other eating disorders.

Having re-read your OP, I’m so sorry to say this but that actually does sound concerning.
It sounds very like how my sister started (even some of the foods are the same) and I think the earlier you try to address this the better.

This is like comparing someone restricting calories to lose weight to extreme calorie restriction like anorexia.

Please educate yourself on what Orthorexia actually it, this is an insensitive thread. Google is free.

It starts off small and snowballs. That’s often how eating disorders work.

I'd be very supportive if DD started to eat this way. It's something I do myself but my children scoff at!

I do draw the line about worrying what kind of pan I am using or drinking filter water though!

Thank you @Genevieva, me neither, I hadn’t really considered that this would be an actual disorder, she absolutely would not consider it was either.
im afraid her manners wouldn’t extend that far though, there’s no way she would eat eg a lasagna if it was put in front of her, even if she was eating with the queen. She would absolutely prioritise what she believes to be her own health, above keeping someone else happy, and she would argue her case strongly.

I once went on a date with a guy who told me that he only eats grass fed beef and salt. Literally roasts a joint every morning and eats it all day. There was no second date.

I think that would concern me, OP. There is a big difference between refusing a bucket of KFC and an occasional cooked-from-scratch lasagna.

I say that as a battle-weary parent of a DC with a entrenched MH condition which started out as 'quirks'.

As someone who has a parent with orthorexia, what you describe would worry me a lot, especially the bits about only drinking filtered water and only using certain pans, and restrict her travel to fit in with that.

This would ring alarm bells for me.

I think it does sound a bit obsessive. Nothing wrong with choosing organic fresh products as a diet, but not when you can't flex that at all for travel or social occasions.

How would she feel if her diet wasn't available? Would she be anxious / angry / starve herself?

Thank you so much for that @TheLoneliestSnail, and I’m so sorry to hear that about your sister. You are spot on, I also think it’s about control for her in a world she can’t control, so she can control this which I think regulates her. I will keep an eye but I’m not sure what I can realistically do if she does stop eating out etc as like your sister, she genuinely believes she’s doing the right thing.
at the moment her health and body weight are really good, her figure is very healthy looking, she’s not stick thin at all but neither is she overweight. It isn’t about looks for her at all, it’s about how she feels.

But, how? What do you think would have helped your sister?

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying you don’t think this is too bad?

The problems come when people won't deviate from their plan ever. Eg if eating out, or at a friend's house, so it means they don't eat, or are rude about other people's preferences and restrictions, eg budget as this way of eating can be very expensive and not affordable to many.

Or if the person's finances or other members of the household are affected, you often see men insisting they have large portions of meat and their female partners are desperately trying to balance the grocery budget and feed everyone else too.

Can you make her see that as long as she eats like this most of the time, it is good enough and the odd meal that doesn't fit her preferences won't affect her health? The 80/20 rule is good for this, it's what you do 80% of the time that has the most affect and the odd deviation, even if 2 or 3 times a week doesn't matter.

Also that she understands that, due to cost or preference, not everyone eats like she does, so be mindful of this, eg if her friends want to go to McDonalds, she could go and have a chicken salad and water and enjoy the social experience, rather than insisting that everyone goes somewhere else to fit her way of eating.

It sounds like the kind of thing I might have got into as a teenager. I’m absolutely fine, eat organic when I can, choose ‘artesian’ ice cream over Walls, try not to eat too many UPFs but don’t stress if I’m out and have to eat what’s put in front of me. On the face of it I wouldn’t be overly concerned. Teenagers can be a bit obsessive while they’re figuring the world out, IMO. I would wonder if she’s anxious and overwhelmed by the state of the world and is trying to control its effect on her by means of what she puts in her body . Good to chat about this

So, there has been full days where her diet hasn’t been available to her, such as long flights etc and she just hasn’t eaten anything that day but she would argue that the wonderful thing about this diet is that she never gets hungry. She will just eat loads the next day or plan in advance and eat loads the day before.

Your post is implying clean eating and Orthorexia is the same.

I don’t think your daughter habits, at present are too extreme, she’s actually got much better habits than people who eat processed shite and guzzle Monster energy drinks etc.

Maybe one to watch but younger generations have become much more aware of how great it feels to prioritise health and diet.
Her habits are no different to being a strict Vegan, only she’s putting herself first not animals in this case.

I think the difference would be the level of distress caused by not being able to eat this way. You say your DD eats out socially just fine, so not distressed by a meal not cooked in a certain way with only organic ingredients etc. so that’s less worrying than if you said that because of her concerns she never ate anything she hadn’t prepared herself.

You don’t mention any carbs in her diet though, and say you eat her chips if out. That would worry me more than the only organic cooked in special pans part because it does suggest quite a high level of restriction.

I agree that this is often about control and can snowball quickly. I have an old friend who was very particular, many years ago, about having dressings on the side, swapping the carby side dish on the menu for a salad, not adding the bacon bits etc. It didn't really click until years later that this was a sign of disordered eating - we just thought she was fussy and a bit fancy (we were not!). I learnt later that she'd been anorexic as a younger teen.

Years down the line and she is fit and healthy (albeit very thin) but still needs to exercise the same control over her food. I would say it'll likely never go away but Ithink she's sort of subconsciously made her peace with it. Our relationship with food is a very funny thing.

Another question would be has she got this from social media? Is she aware that what's in the video is only a snapshot and not necessarily 100% 'real' or representative?