Aibu to think that clean eating isn’t that bad?

[arethereanyleftatall]

DD, 17, only eats ‘clean’. She eats like this because she says she feels much better on it, and for her that’s a priority above all else. And, to be fair to her, she’s thriving. Doing well at alevels, volunteering, working, and generally a wonderfully bright and joyous person to be around. This is in stark contrast to the gcse years with school refusal, period pains, excessive sleeping, no homework completed ever.
if it’s relevant, and so as not to drip feed, she ticks every adhd box at the top, but not diagnosed although we’re 4 years in now on the nhs list, and she’s got through the first few stages, and probably autism, but is able to mask so much, that that isn’t noticeable to the outside world.
daily menu for her would be steak, eggs, salmon, about 4 different fruits/veg, honey, all organic, and meat/fish/eggs only cooked in a special non Teflon pan with tallow. Drinks are filtered water only, and a hot drink with ginger, lemon.
I didn’t think this was too bad, expensive yes but I can afford it, but many of her peers are eating junk on the daily, and drinking alcohol, so compared to that, I feel like she’s ok. Yes, I know there’s lots in between that and balance would be key but I can’t force any near adult to eat, and certainly not DD for whom telling her what to do has the exact opposite effect.
anyway. On here last night, i discovered there’s a diagnosis for this - orthorexia, and it scared me. Oh, one last thing, it doesn’t stop her eating out socially, she’ll order steak and chips and I’ll eat her chips.

Which is why I said potentially.
I became a vegetarian at 15, im perfectly healthy in my fifties.

My Dsis followed me a year later and has had a lifelong ED.

I have offered no advice other than to keep an eye on this. I know that trying to force people to eat doesn’t work, believe me, we’ve been there.

Hiding her figure under baggy clothing and not wanting romantic/sexual attention are also eating disorder traits.

I have only read your replies, so don’t know if you are aware but eating disorders and neurodivergence are very common. A lot of the times the crisis point an eating disorder brings a child to, skips the CAMHS list and actually brings about the neurodivergent diagnosis. I would 100% go back to your GP with this information to add to the neurodivergence referral. Food issues are taken seriously.

Your posts seem to be red flag after red flag. It seems to have been covered that this is not clean eating, which includes all food groups. It is only not single ingredient eating as she is not eating all food groups. It is restrictive eating. She has defined a small number of foods as safe and would rather starve than deviate.

I know you say she says she isn’t hungry, but this is a huge part of the control and stubbornness of an eating disorder. I note you say that she doesn’t like you to contradict her and will always argue back. This is also eating disorder behaviour. As her responsible adult, you actually need to out-stubborn her. I was in patient for what was termed anorexia, but was probably orthorexia. The biggest difference in outcomes from my ward was how little shit the parents took. My parents were weak, unwilling to argue with me and I/the disorder kept winning. Other girls were clamped down on and monitored (pulled home from uni etc) much more firmly and benefitted from the guidance.

@arethereanyleftatall whichever way you cut it, late teens are a tricky time.

The big changes coming up and the extended time with her boyfriend’s family could give her a bit more perspective on things. She is also fortunate to have you to support her whatever happens.

You’re welcome about the book - it straightened a few things out for me. It gives a few case studies, explains how this newly recognised condition came out of the modern food and social landscape and is written by a sports physio specialising in eating disorders and a sociologist/food writer (who happens to be the daughter of the historian A.N. Wilson). It is very informative about what to look out for without going into medical stuff or scaremongering.

I don't think it's that bad, no. I think this is the Paleo diet or similar? She's 17, which is nearly an adult and she says she feels well on this diet. She's not underweight or undereating. Nutritionally it sounds quite good. I honestly don't think I would worry too much if I were you. If she was losing weight or underweight then I would be concerned but I think you need to listen to her experience of her own body and accept that this is important to her. She may well find doing it 100% too restrictive or too expensive after a while anyway.

I think if you do want to speak to her I would focus on calcium, iodine and fibre but take a supportive stance. Hopefully you're all taking vitamin D as a family anyway if you're in the UK.

This is insanely naive. It's not what she's eating it's how and why.

It’s obviously sustainable now as she’s mainly eating at home and all food purchased and funded by you. If you go out it sounds like you choose high end restaurants that serve oysters and steak.
I’d be extremely wary about what happens in 12 months time if she goes to uni. Potentially she won’t eat out with friends as they aren’t going to choosing restaurants like that. Sharing a tiny dirty fridge in halls with limited space for fresh food, maybe 1/3 shelf. Lots of socialising at uni involves food or drinks. Doesn’t need to be alcohol but she doesn’t drink soft drinks/coffee etc.
I can see her becoming very socially isolated and potentially going down rabbit hole. Eg missing lectures as needs to shop daily at the organic butchers several miles away etc.
I’d be watching her carefully and keep chatting to her. I’d be very worried.
Another reason to pursue ND diagnosis is if she’s diagnosed then uni may offer adjustments like fridge in her room or studio with own kitchen part funded by DSA.

Complete different comparisons. She’s not worried as the content of the food but the hiding it, the inflexibility, the obsession.

100% this. I had severe anorexia, this progressed from "healthy eating" in my teens.
For now your daughter sounds fine, but do keep an eye on her as expressed by thelonliestsnail

There is a great book "Good Girls" by Hadley Freeman about her experience of having an eating disorder.

This is well worth a read as lots of your daughter's behaviours line up with what Hadley describes.

Even though your daughter's diet may seem to be physically healthy (all these posters saying she's fine!!), mentally and behaviourally this is very unhealthy.

I haven't read all the comments but have read a few and no-one has said this yet. It matters what the cause of this is and only a really well qualified medical professional could tell you. If she's autistic, what you describe could easily be a facet of her autism. Whilst there's an overlap between autism and eating disorders, it doesn't necessarily follow that an autistic person with unusual eating has an eating disorder. I would also be wary of explicitly saying you find it unusual - if it stems from autism, it may be her way of seeking predictability and sameness which is normal if you're autistic and not something to be ashamed of or fixed.
@arethereanyleftatall

Thank you @SpunkyLimePlayer, I was thinking this too. The word ‘control’ could also be ‘regulate’. Eating like this helps her regulate.

@SpunkyLimePlayer
I was very scared by the responses but over the few days I’ve calmed down a bit thinking of all the other autistic children I know who will only eat chicken nuggets for example and won’t deviate. I need to wrap my head around why that’s considered not an eating disorder, or at least it’s just considered totally normal for NDs, whereas dds healthy eating is.

My Autistic 6yo has a very very restricted diet but I was told it's not considered an eating disorder because he eats more than 6 foods. Otherwise they might have diagnosed ARFID. It sounds like your DD eats a much wider variety than him and much healthier. He eats no meat at all, no fruit at all except raisins and 1 vegetable. But he eats a variety of carby stuff and dairy so they said it wasn't ARFID.

That’s interesting, thank you. Yes, she eats over 30 different things I think. She’ll basically eat any fruit, veg, meat, fish that she also likes, ideally organic but it’s fine if that’s not available.
i have spoken to her since this thread, our chat got a little heavy. I detailed most of the concerns listed here. She got quite overwhelmed and has asked if I back off till after her exams, which is fine with me, I have laid it out for her and know she will go away and process.
i did ask if she understands that nothing is going to happen to her if she drinks tap water for eg and she said she understands that but would just rather not.

my plan once exams have finished is to see if I can get her to slowly introduce more things back, just one at a time. For her, she’s keeping so rigid as she says (and this is very much evidenced in her) that she’s full of energy, which shr believes is due to her current diet. So if I can get her to add one thing at a time, and she’s still buoyant, then we’re on track. She has promised to look in to what she is prepared to eat for calcium.

seems like our children need ti combine for a perfect food combo. Good luck with it all

There is a difference between a teenage girl and an autistic 6 year old. The 6 year olds food aversions doesn't come from social media where they are proning clean eating and proana content. What can look healthy to begin with can be just a rabbit hole to severe eating disorders when taken to it's extremes.

Exactly. And your dd isn’t regulating @arethereanyleftatall. She’s controlling her environment. Regulating is healthy behaviour. Controlling is the opposite.

It’s true that people with SEN will have safe foods, however, she’s not doing this in a safe way.

I think adding one thing back at a time is a sensible way to tackle this. I think you’re likely going to hit a lot of resistance. And it’s at that point you’ll get a better picture of the severity of what you’re dealing with.

That is valid.

My MIL eats like this, she only eats organic food

Chicken or fish
Vegetables
Fruit
Cereal bars
Milk
Eggs

Very weak tea
Apple juice
Water

She will on special occasions eat vanilla ice cream
She does now eat a specific type of bread which is a gluten free seeded bread you can only buy in a specific supermarket. She will do things like eat prunes or avocados every day for years and then suddenly she will never touch them again.

She is underweight and always has been. She says she has intolerances and cheese gives her spots so she won’t touch it, she is also very fixated on food and the way she preps it is ritualistic. There is an eating disorder there. I don’t know much about them if honest so have found this thread useful. She is a very intellectual but also daft woman who lives in muddled chaos at home. Likes time alone, very passive aggressive and is prone to hysterical outbursts. She is in her eighties so isn’t changing now. She does take supplements, spends a fortune on them.

That is definitely concerning, OP.

It's the inflexibility and the idea that eating a lasagne would harm her health in some way that makes it tip into a mental health disorder.

This isn't just 'clean eating', it's extreme.

i did ask if she understands that nothing is going to happen to her if she drinks tap water for eg and she said she understands that but would just rather not.

I'm sure she knows she is not going to drop dead if she drinks tap water, she sees people drinking it every day. It's a paranoia that there is something in tap water that will slowly build up in her body and harm her over the long term. She wants to keep her body perfect. The truth is that her body is one of the best filters there is, and it can get rid of the vast majority of things that might harm her.

This is going to massively restrict her life and the truth is, it is not possible to cut out everything that might contain chemicals/ additives/ everything that could theoretically cause some kind of harm, and remain healthy. In doing that, you harm yourself in other ways, you become malnourished, it affects your social life and what you can do, and your anxiety spirals.

I really recommend that she talks to someone about it once her exams are over.

Does it, though? She sounds quite anxious.

This is true @wrinklycactusand your post is wise.
our poor kids. Social media has caused so so many problems. In the olden days, you popped a spag Bol in front of your teenager, they said thank you, wolfed it down and gave it no more thought. Now so many of them, it’s not just my dd, are worrying about micro plastics etc

Yes. But then the problem is that really, some of the worries are valid.

Our fruit and vegetables, for example, are grown in different ways than they were in the past - since Brexit, chemicals and fertilisers that used to be banned are coming back.

There is (perhaps) some justification for buying certain things organic. I always look at the 'dirty dozen'.

But also, it's important to realise just how good our bodies already are at filtering out a lot of rubbish. Your daughter's body is less fragile than she thinks it is. It can cope with a LOT.

It's the degree of control she is trying to get that is concerning, and also how much it worries her - and yeah, that probably is because of social media and her algorithm showing her more stuff to be worried about and probably trying to sell her stuff that claims to improve her health.

It's all about balance and it actually takes quite a lot of maturity to realise it - your daughter is only 17 so of course she's vulnerable to all of this.

She needs support to recognise that 1) it's not possible to control all of these things to the nth degree and maintain good mental and physical health, and 2) A lot of them aren't actually as bad as social media would have you believe - for example, using Teflon pans is absolutely fine as long as they're not severely eroded and bits flaking into your food.

These are things that she could probably talk to a professional about. It sounds like she is actually quite smart and sensible and could get some control and balance around this if she put her mind to it. But it's important to do it now, before these habits get very ingrained into adulthood. If she gets to 30 having spent most of her adult life like this, she is unlikely to be able to change at that point.

Thank you @wrinklycactusyou articulate things perfectly