AIBU to feel shocked by a friend saying she did not want another child as she doesn’t want another boy?

[Omgshesaidthat]

Was chatting with my mum friends the other day & talking about who wanted more babies.

One of my friends said she wasn’t going to have anymore because whilst she loved her son to bits, she didn’t want another boy! She said felt that 2 boys would completely change the dynamics of the household, 2 boys would egg each other on and it would just be too much of a boisterous household.

I was just totally shocked that she would say that out loud tbh and it’s really clouded my view of her.

I’ve got 2 girls and I just can’t imagine not wanting to have gone for the 2nd in case the house was too girly !

Aibu to think this was an awful thing to say and back off from her?

Whay would your parents or guardians have said if you "rough housed" with your sisters?

I have a boy and two girls and the boy is by far the easiest, calmest most chilled. He was exuberant as a toddler yes, but so is my youngest DD. She is definitely the biggest handful. My middle DD is quieter but very stroppy and very physical.

Yes they fit some stereotypes in terms of interests (football v dancing etc) but in terms of parenting them and energy levels they all different. If I could choose the easiest I would have 3 of my son, but I recognise that another DS may be different from him as each child is unique.

I don't like to project anything onto a child because of it's sex before it is born. I really dislike the way society is quite content to do that and then wonders why stereotypes persist.

MN skews anti-male anyway. Would be interesting to run this thread again in a few months with girls and see what the responses are...

I think if that's how she feels then she's being very sensible to not have another child, and she certainly shouldn't be judged for it. I hate so much seeing the threads of women who basically felt like this and then did get a dreaded second boy (or sometimes even first boy!) and are now devastated that their 50-50 gamble didn't work out.

In reality, if she wants a calm, low-conflict house then she is better off sticking at one. Two children, of either sex, is a less calm and controlled dynamic than one. I actually think a pretty bad outcome for her would be if she did have another child and it was a girl, since my experience is that second children, of either sex, are usually less placid than their older siblings, so I'm not sure she'd find the girl to be the calming influence she feels she might be!

I have two boys and could not be happier with our family dynamic. However, I don't expect everyone to want that just because it's so great for me, any more than I think everyone should want children because I'm so glad I had mine.

Eh? I really love it when friends feel they can be honest with me! But yes, if you were my 'friend' and felt the need to share something I'd said to you on MN to ask for group opinion, I'd love for you to then back off from me.

One of my boys was always very gentle and hated boisterous behaviour. The other was wild. Both raised the same. This being Mumsnet many might agree with her
Or maybe it is because there are way more boisterous boys than ‘very gentle’ ones?
Of course there are exceptions, but let’s not pretend that statistically boys are not more boisterous than girls.

Especially without it ending up on here.

That's because we choose to socialise them that way and don't humilate and demean them for being "boisterous" like we do girls.

I think she’s entitled to her opinion and shared it in what she felt was a safe space away from children overhearing (presumably?). Of course you’re equally entitled to disagree. I couldn’t afford two girls and my son was way more mellow than my girl and much easier to raise. People make presumptions all the time. Girl dads get told he’s in for it during teenage years because of all the hormones flying around and to “watch that wallet”. It’s just conversation.

Yeah but I think even though we tell ourselves it’s all down to socialisation, there is a certain degree of ingrained behaviour which makes male people act differently to female people. Some of the people I know who raised their kids “gender neutral” have boys who are total tearaways and absolutely conform to every stereotype.

This.
She doesn’t need a so-called friend judging her in what should have been a safe place to discuss honest feelings.

This is not even a slightly "shocking" thing to say and nothing to be "shocked" about. People can choose not to get pregnant again for any arbitrary reason they want. Maybe you should back away - you'd be doing her a massive favour. This is such an utterly normal thought to share with a friend and not controversial in the slightest. Lots of couples choose not to try for a second child in case they get another challenging child if the first one was tough, another child with disabilities, another boy, another girl. People have their own personal preferences.

Honestly, that’s what I thought before having kids, and then I had b/g twins.
From seeing them and my friends kids from a young age, I’m now fully convinced that it’s not all about the education/environment but that there are differences.

That's because kids are naturally inclined to be tearaways due to their low impulse control. Some of all boys will be particularly this way inclined and others less so. Same with girls.

The difference is that we wil tell the girls that they are "tomboys" and tell the boys that they are "girly", or at least "not like other boys". This is often spun to boys that they are "good" because they are not "boyish" When they are exactly like other boys because they have male anatomy and physiology.

But imagine what that does to a little boy... he is told that the good parts of him are the "feminine" or "not boyish" parts. Can you imagine how that might make him feel about the male parts of his body?

Same for a girl. When you tell a girl that she'd be fine as she was if she just wasn't female, it would make her feel resentful about her female body

Of course some kids are going to be pretty much like the stereotype of their sex

Another so called friend scenario where the judge shows their intolerance. It is her womb and her family. You have no right to judge her for her personal choices. You aren't her friend. You are her critic.

Still not 100% convinced and I reckon if children were raised in a bubble with no stereotypes at all, there would still be marked differences between males and females. And as I said I have several “woke” friends who have tried their hardest to avoid anything stereotypical and they still have stereotypical kids.

I don't think I'd back off from her and I think more people should think more carefully about having more, or any, children, but I do think it's odd to assume children's personalities will purely be determined by their sex. I have two boys and they are very different from each other and I don't think our house is overly masculine at all - I'm the only woman. I remember being about 10 and seeing a family of mum, dad and 2 boys in a rainy town in N Wales and they all had dark blue anoraks and short hair and I vividly remember thinking I hope I don't have two boys when I grow up as I'll have to wear an anorak and have short hair! needless to say, despite having two boys I have not been forced to cut my hair or strongarmed into an anorak!

They probably aren't "woke" at all and think it means compelling their girl to climb trees and their boys to put dresses on.

You don’t sound like much of a friend 🤷‍♀️

When you're friends these are the types of conversations you should be able to have without judgement. I have one son and I'm one and done. When my nephews come to visit it completely changes the dynamic in my house its complete chaos so I defo wouldn't want a household full of boys either.

Thanks yes I stand corrected. It means there are large numbers of men, rather than women, who cannot find a partner. I think it's sad that so many men will live out their days alone, probably with their only companionship being other men in a similar position.

@Isittimeformynapyet Sorry I was trying to post this in reply to you. My brain's having a hard timetoday

I agree @GlowingupI don't think the stereotypes come from socialisation at all, they are innate. The problem arises when we socialise kids to believe they are wrong for not following the stereotype (often boisterous girls, gentle boys) or for naturally following the stereotype (boisterous boys).

I work with kids in a preschool and everything in gender neutral. Yet there is a difference in how most girls and boys play, a small number of boys are rough, most are not but are drawn towards trucks and blocks and typical boy toys. Similarly a small number of girls are delicate and clean and precise in their movement like little ladies but most are more energetic and messy but still are drawn to dolls and colouring. I would say from my experience about 20% of each sex doesn't follow the stereotype at all. Eg a girl who only loves rough play, a boy who pretends to be a princess and minds the babies.

I think its really important to check ourselves so we don't make some kids feel lesser for following their natural instincts, whichever way they go.

Nope. I thought this bullshit before I had kids too. And my experience has been that there are very stark differences from very early on. Studies also show big differences in maturity and behaviour between girls and boys.

And even if you were right, the mother can try her best but her influence is very limited in comparison to the rest of society, teachers, friends etc. You can't raise them in a vacuum.

I found this really interesting, particularly the section around toys:

‘Toddlers' toy preferences are shaped, in part, by prenatal testosterone: girls with a genetic disorder that exposes them to high levels of testosterone and other androgens before birth are more interested in toy trucks and cars than typical girls are. Even male and female monkeys show a modest preference for gender-stereotyped toys, which suggests that there is something about vehicles, balls and moving parts that may resonate with boys' hormonal priming, drawing them away from their initial face preference and toward toys they can interact with more physically.

Starting from this small bias, children's toy preferences grow more extreme through social shaping’

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-differences-in-boys-and-girls-how-much-is-inborn/

So there are biological differences but social shaping then reinforces and increases them. Even if you think you are gender neutral eggs., when a boy shows an interest in trucks as they are perhaps innately born to do for whatever reason, you then reinforce it by buying more trucks.