to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

This is the grandma I hope to be. Not too far from the mother I’ve always been. Boundaries? Good manners? Respect for others? Abso-damn-lutely. But fun? Mud pies? Games and giggling? Also, absolutely. I worked in early childhood education. Being active was a necessary part of the curriculum. There’s a brief lull, then letting teenagers run full on in football or other outside exercise is also necessary. It keeps everyone from getting cranky and the kids sleep better too.

No, but it's a bit of an odd thing for a grandmother to do, if she'd normally be OK with small children, and then become intolerant of them. I wondered if you'd noticed any other changes? For example, have you noticed she starting to get a bit impatient about things which usually she wouldn't bother about? It's something to bear in mind, thats all, because it is a bit unreasonable of anyone. I hope she's just being a bit crabby rather than it be early dementia.

On the grounds that banning your grandchildren from your home is a bit odd. But you know, don't cut the woman any slack by looking for an explanation of her odd behaviour.

I think it would be reasonable for both you and your sister to have a conversation with DM where you kindly explain that you are very sad that DSis won't be able to visit as often but you understand her feelings that the twins are too much for her. You could also mention her refusal to visit you limiting her contact with you all.

This would be a moment for her to reflect and change tack, but I don't see that happening. I don't think DM is being deliberately difficult: she just can't cope with double two year olds for the same reasons that she is reclusive and not keen to visit places they are not as serene as her house. Age seems to worsen these characteristics.

After that, you will just have to accept the situation.

I suspect the twins are gorgeous creatures but perhaps have been particularly difficult for DM in that she is older now than she was when she experienced previous 2 year old DC and they are in stereo, magnifying their impact by arriving as a pair at the same stage of development.

My grandmother was a very lovely gran and I very much had the benefit of her time and enthusiasm. Some of her great grandchildren also had this but by her nineties she found children visiting exhausting and my cousins kept visits with children short for this reason. She didn't have the bandwidth later in life for the activities her grandchildren enjoyed. I think this might also be true of your DM, but at a younger age. What she could tolerate a few years ago is not the same as now.

Big hug to you and your DSis OP. I am glad you can support each other in your relationship with DM as it sounds tricky.

How did your mother treat you growing up, OP?
To be honest, if my mother ever told me not to bring her grandchildren round, I would be devastated because I know that would be the beginning of the end for me!

She was very good practical wise. Always got to school on time, cooked fresh meals, clean clothes.

Emotionally: abusive, overly strict on discipline, cold and heartless mostly.

Where does the fifth child come from? OP said DSis has four children

It sounds she was never really keen on small children, but tolerated them. The current situation is different in three ways - she is getting older, the children are twins, so probably hyping each other/running&screaming stereo, and the two years old twins are managed by the same person as 5 and 6 yo, which means even less control.

Yep. We, as a society, need to give older women a bit more of a break. People are having children later and later. They are expected to work until their late 60s. It’s downright unkind to expect a woman in her 70s to be up for twin two year olds in the way that a woman twenty years younger might have been.

I’m actually cutting her slack because I don’t think her behaviour requires explanation or is odd.

She clearly has never been keen on the noise and mess you get with children, even her own. Lots of people feel like that. It certainly doesn’t indicate dementia!

Twice I’ve read that she prefers the 2 yos on screens??? God that’s depressing… to actually prefer your GC zombified & not interacting with you. How bleak

👍

I thought that was the older ones but I may have misread.

Love the username btw 😬 I am reading it in Donna’s voice

Totally disagree many 70 years old can manage gc some actually look after them. 70 is not that old.
OP says that her DSis tidies her before she leaves so if she wants to see the two older ones she needs to accept the twins as well, after all she is not looking after 4 children on her own, they are just visiting with their mum.

From OP's latest post, it doesn't sound as though OP's mum was kind or tolerant when OP and her sister were children:

'She was very good practical wise. Always got to school on time, cooked fresh meals, clean clothes.

Emotionally: abusive, overly strict on discipline, cold and heartless mostly.'

She doesn't sound like the sort of person that should be in the company of small vulnerable children because she seems to be extremely unpleasant.

Why not? Do you think the children would be in danger?

Honestly? Sometimes you get what you get. My mother always said how much nicer children got as they got older because she found toddlers so awful.

It is unfair. Of course your DM is totally within her rights to ban the twins BUT she canot get upset when this means not seeing your sister or her older kids. I suspect that she will be upset once reality kicks in and also suspect that it won't occur to her that it is her own fault as your sister has no one to look after the younger two, not just your her (DSis) being petty.

Im sure her pristine house will keep her comfort in the future when she has zero relationship with her grandchildren.

I’d be just as furious at the expectation the older two have to sit watching screens tbh. We are far, far away from “seen, but not heard” in 2026. What exactly do any of the children get out of visiting because it sure as hell isn’t a relationship with her, is it?

Most grandparents reactions to grandchildren are nothing to do with age and everything to do with personality. It’s clear that this grandmother has been like this all along and I find the whole story very sad. My sympathy is with the two daughters wishing things were different and still trying for a decent relationship after all these years.
At least that’s how it comes across to me.

I wouldn’t bother visiting. Sad that DM can’t see further than her desires and form a relationship with her family. I’m sure she’ll be very lonely in her later years… and not understand why!

DM absolutely does have the right to decide who visits, however you need to impress on it is not rational to expect perfect behaviour from 2 year oldss, that she has offended your sister and in all likelihood will not see her because of it.

I also have sympathy with the mother wanting to spend time with her adult daughters occasionally without the stress of young children - nobody wins in this situation

I nanny twins- they are a few months out from two. They are very loud (cheerfully so) and if they get bored with their toys/reading they will literally say ready, set, go and run up and down the hallway. That’s pretty normal for toddlers! Lots of energy, and lots of excitement.

If I was your sister I would gently point that out to your mum. “Yes of course I can understand that they are loud and it feels very overwhelming to you but since I am a SAHM I will see you less if I can’t bring the twins.”maybe you could suggest to your mum that she offers to pay for a nanny if she wants to see your sister more often 🤷‍♀️

It is of course up to your mum who she has in her house… but it is also up to your sister whether she wishes to just completely stop visiting !
id be telling mother I’ll see her in 3 years when the kids are at school!