to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

So the older ones are being pacified into submission on screens? Fantastic.

What is it with grandparents who aren’t actually willing to engage with their grandchildren during the course of a visit? So lazy.

Yes but as people say it is her home and exactly how much noise and mess are the two year old twins making?

😂

Why is the mother ‘so unpleasant’?

Maybe when you get to her age you’ll have more sympathy.

My mum can’t take much noise either. That doesn’t make her unpleasant.

How aged 2 are they, as in 2 and 1 month or 2 and 8 months, IYGM

Even at just under 2 my GC played happily for an hour or so with Duplo or play doh, yes messy but contained in one place.

They were 2 last month.

How much noise and mess from two year olds? It depends on the two year old.

People used to tell me how much easier it was having a second child over to play with their toddler because it kept them entertained.

Until third, I completely disagreed - my 2 year olds liked to play by themselves and quietly narrate what they were doing all the time.

Then I had the ball of energy that was DC3 and having another toddler over was a lifesaver. That kid was a relentless talker and needed to be busy every second of the day.

If your sister's twins are like DC3, I can understand someone in their 70s who isn't keen on children finding them very draining.

Your mother isn't remotely maternal. She values quiet and order over family connection. Accept that's who she is, and then see her or don't, whichever you feel happier with.

You can't change her.

I am not looking to change her. Her wishes will be accommodated.

Then what is your AIBU?

In all honesty your sister should not go to her mums with the kids (or maybe not by herself if she can’t accept the kids - maybe she should detach from that relationship).
I had 4 under 4. My kids literally trashed my mums house (even made marks in the table 😩 drew on posh wallpaper and the carpet with felt tips 😳) as until you have 4 you can’t understand the world wind of mess especially with such a tight age range. It’s not like managing one or two or three children. Four is a different ball game totally especially with twins. Nothing was said except don’t worry they are children. I was always welcomed there, still now.

With one sibling we was always unwelcomed and to be frank not sure why I bothered visited. It was an inconvenient to them and I didn’t enjoy it. Although with 4 kids I was on my knees and appreciated the company as not many “people / friends” want 4 kids in their house also to go somewhere with a change of scenery.

I wouldn’t repeat it though - we visit once a year that’s all now and it’s max 3 hrs. If I was to repeat or be your sister I personally wouldn’t go to your mums. It’s only time until your sister gains energy and will be upset by your mums behaviour.

Id tell the mum to go to the sisters house. That would be the end of the line. I wouldn’t take my kids to your mums house she can’t cherry pick all children should be treated equally.

How is your mum otherwise? Sounds like she might be developing dementia xx

That's cruel.

I'm not a parent, but I'm aware that age can be a handful, and that 2 would be twice the handful, but still they're only small!

If I was your sister, I would stop all visits. If your mother wants to see her daughter and the grandchildren, she better make an effort for a change. That would be the end of discussion.

She obviously as a ridiculously high expectations of 2 years olds. 1 is hard enough but two!! Of course they will be loud and make a mess. Can she stop them from visiting? Of course, but there should be compassion for such selfish behaviour.

She seems fine other than that. Is banning grandchildren from your home a sign of dementia?

It’s good that your parents were fine about the GC but it’s also fine for your sibling to not want four children absolutely trashing their house. I can’t imagine many people would put up with it, especially with expensive stuff.

I wondered if that was what the OP was referring to but her situation sounds like normal child stuff.

On what grounds? It’s okay for her not to be able to cope with the normal noise and mess of 2 yo twins, as long as she understands there won’t necessarily be a good relationship in the future.

It doesn’t mean she’s losing her faculties

This happened to me with my twins and my intolerant foster father. He had been more tolerant but grew intolerant with age. It meant we no longer could visit and now for more than 15 years he and my foster mother have foregone a realitonship with all 4 of their grandchildren. They are all adults now and know the truth and no longer want any contact. Selfish and intolerant behaviour people matter more than houses.

Not everyone wants their house trashed by lairy toddlers 🤷‍♀️

Your mum has the same expectations with her grandchildren as she had with you two.
No noise, no mess.
Which was achieved through fear from what you said.

The issue here is that
1- your dsister has twins and it’s pretty different than 2 dcs of a different age.
2- both of you are parenting very differently (thankfully!!) than the the ‘being seen but not heard’ your mum expected. Theyre never going to fit in for your mum iyswim

I agree with you, your dsister should respect her wishes.
I also feel those wishes will drive the family apart. There’s no way the grandchildren are going to have a close reiationship with her. Even less so if they don’t see her that regularly.
I also agree with your dsister that taking only the older two is not on. (If that was possible)

The only thing that I would reconsider now is what relationship you (as in you ahd your sister) want either her.
Your dsister clearly wanted a close relationship. But I also think it’s not going to happen. 😢😭
Then review how/when/where/how often you see your DM