to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

Not to my knowledge but it might impair logic and reason.

I am not the sister, neither am I angry about it.

Of course I understand the spectrum of mess. People seem to be struggling that 2 year old twins can be noisy at times and also make a mess and the parents cannot always stop this.

I completely understand you OP, just normal toddler mess... they are just playing. Your mum is being completely unreasonable but not too sure what you guys can do other then visit less.

Has she got any good points? She doesn't sound as though she was a great mother when you and your sister were children and she is a really shitty grandparent. When no children are present, is she good company or are your visits just duty visits?

I am not sure why people are obsessed with the noise and mess toddlers are making. My sister cleans and tidies while she is there and before she leaves so there is no extra work for DM.

My sister won't take the twins there anymore due to the ban. Maybe when they are older.

She doesn’t want much does she 🙄

My mum has been going on about this for months and my sister has been struggling with DM's attitude to her DC for years so a lot longer than the time I have spent on MN talking about it!

She is always better when no children are present but that is few and far between with young children.

I was going to say something a bit like this. It sounds as though the mum has reached the point where she really can’t cope with such young children.

I am much younger (nearly 50) but am well past the point where I am up for young children. I was at a country park this week and afterwards texted a friend to say that there’s nothing like listening to a woman in the toilet cubicle next to you shout at multiple toddlers to make me glad I now have teenagers.

You should be a psychologist 😂

I wonder if this is a side effect of us all having children much later. There was a time when I could perhaps have had grandchildren at the age I am now (not quite 50). Now if my children have children at the same ages I did, I’ll be in my early 70s while the grandchildren are the ages described in the OP.

😂

Not twins no. But I’ve had 2 year olds. Your expectations are very low

I think you're right! Dgm and dgf were 41 when I was born, my dm and df were 48/49 when dd1 was born and I was 56 when dgs1 was born. I was 42 when I had dd3 so I'd be 84 if she had dc at the age I was when she was born! (And my cousin will be a dggm at the age of 58 this year)

Your DM sounds very set in her ways, which is entirely her right, but I wonder what she gains from any visits?
The older DC are acceptably quiet, now that they are a bit older, but sitting quietly at Grandma's house for a couple of hours doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs for them, hardly building fond memories of what fun they had.
She will probably have to accept that when the DC are a bit older, with more autonomy, they will quietly. politely, vote with their feet, and avoid visiting her.
You have suggested alternatives ways of fostering family bonding, which don't suit, so I guess that leaves her sitting alone in her beautifully clean and tidy house.

My Dmum never bothered much with my kids but niece she did childcare for and seemed to love it. There's 13 year between her and next GC she botheres with. Those have been aging 13 years for Dmum - she no longer has any patience with young kids and constantly want youngest on a screen. It's not got any better and GC got older TBH - she gets shorter and fewer visits.

If you Dsis and you can't get much childfree time she'll see you less.

You could try childfriendly cafe or locations when twins get bit older but if she won't do that well then she'll see less of your sister and the DGC and probably moan about that. This isn't really something that can be fixed as it was.

Twins are very different as a pp said.

If my mum told me my kids weren’t welcome that would be the last time
she saw any of us

My sister will no longer visit with the twins as DM wants.

Similar here too - she wants the older two on screens all the time. No doubt it will be the same with the twins once they get a bit older.

If my mum tried that with me she wouldn't be seeing me or any of the children again.

If your Mum doesn’t want to visit other people’s homes, doesn’t want to go to the park and doesn’t want young children visiting I’m wondering whether she would actually be that bothered if she didn’t see much of any of you.
Does she like her own company? Does she have friends her own age or does she prefer pottering at home.
The only solution seems to be to only visit occasionally for short periods when the kid’s Dad can look after them. If she isn’t happy with that you can only explain that she doesn’t want the kids there and, as you have no one to look after them you can’t visit either. Some people are quite happy on their own for a lot of the time.