AIBU to think my employer cannot insist I cover old scars? *[content warning: mentions self-harm]

[ThisCyanBeaker]

years ago I used to $elf h4rm and now have scars. I work as a rugby coach for 2-5 year olds since September and last Saturday due to the heat I wore short sleeves for the first time. my big boss called me today to tell me that my scars being show damage the company image and therefore I need to cover up. When kids ask what happened at past jobs I always say I fell off my bike and quickly divert it back to them I understand how conduct myself. am I being unreasonable. I do try to cover up but surely when it is over 25 degrees it's okay and parents aren't put off too much by my arms?

This is infront of our/ her children bare in mind

"Oooft my arm is really sore today"

"Ooh I wonder if it will heal nicer than the others"

"What could I cover it up with?" Instead of wearing a long sleeved tshirt or a cardigan ( bare in mind it's only just started to get warm) she will get one of those big leg bandages and wrap it round it 🤦‍♀️

- some people do it for attention.

My 11 year old is autistic and has self harmed.... her scars are all the way down her arms like our veins go.

My school mum aquaintance is short little slices horizontal across her arm, the superficial type self harming.

My daughter doesn't speak about it, ( hasn't done it it since she was diagnosed and received the right support ) but even when she did, she wasn't flaunting it infront of everyone, it was very much a secret for her

It’s not helpful to place value judgements on self-harm, self harm is not more valid because somebody cuts in a vertical rather than a horizontal direction. I self-harm to the extent I’ve needed surgery to fix the damage, your DD’s self harm would probably seem very superficial to me but I am sure it feels anything but to you. I am not condoning the fact this school mum is bringing up her self harm in front of children etc but I don’t think it’s for you to judge what kind of self harm is ‘superficial’ and what isn’t.

Which is the fundamental crux of the problem.

We want to hide disability - especially MH disability.

Whereas maybe we should celebrate what people achieve DESPITE disability or MH crisis.

the most resilient children currently in the education system are those with barriers to it

I don’t believe kids who are otherwise emotionally and mentally well are going to start self harming because they’ve seen someone else’s sh scars.
I also believe it’s better to destigmatise and be open about sh than pretend it doesn’t exist. I’d rather my child felt they could come to me about it and I wouldn’t judge them.
At that age group, I would not tell them a lie like the bike thing. I would just tell them they’re old injuries that have healed or scars and not get into specifics. They’re curious at that age but that doesn’t mean you have to tell them everything when they notice something. I would just answer further questions with “that’s private” and move on.
My sister has extreme sh scars on her forearms. Some are covered with tattoos, some not.
I have a five year old and she has not noticed them yet but I will tell her the truth about what they are when she is old enough if she asks.
My sister started self harming at thirteen. Her boyfriend was doing it and encouraged her to do it too. But what was really significant is my mother has a history of extreme self harm and suicide attempts. My parents had no clue how to parent my sister. They had their own problems which they were wrapped up in and she was crying out for help. The circumstances around sf are very complex. It’s not as straightforward as “if they see it, they might do it” at all.

From a parent's perspective you are a danger working with children.

I understand what your saying, but you and my DD did need medical help for your SH ( my dd didnt require surgery but she did have stitches ) the school mum did not and when I say superficial, I mean superficial like cat scratches,

From another parent's perspective: bullshit.

From another parent’s perspective, you are possibly a danger to your child’s future wellbeing, with an attitude like that.

A very inquisitive 5 year old is also going to be switched on enough to understand that it is rude to talk about someone else's body and that actually, it doesn't matter what happened to her if you don't believe she fell off her bike because it isn't any of our business.

But requiring medical help shouldn’t be a benchmark for self harm being valid or seen as non-superficial. If somebody is struggling enough that they feel the need to hurt themselves then that shows something is clearly very wrong. It’s also damaging to describe one persons self-harm as superficial and suggest another’s is valid because they needed medical treatment, when I started self harming 25-odd years ago the cuts were what you would probably describe as ‘superficial’ but I felt that they weren’t valid enough and my self-harm escalated and escalated, I constantly felt I had to make each injury worse than the last or it meant I wasn’t really hurting, my pain wasn’t really valid etc. I would hate somebody to read your comments and think they needed to cut deep enough to need stitches next time because it can be a really slippery slope where it never feels enough.

As an aside I am glad your DD is doing okay now and had the help she needs, I’m also autistic and wish that support had been available when I was younger. Wishing her all the best in her recovery and future.

No 2-5 year old should be taught about self harm. Give your head a wobble! A 5 year old is reception age, do you honestly think a school should be teaching a reception age child about self harm? Or would there be absolutely uproar?

We all know the answer to that!

Just adding support to those who dont want their little ones exposed to SH scars.

Nope, i wouldn't want my child exposed to it in person, on line or any other format it gets discussed. If the manager needs to address this on behalf of the parents or children then i hope he has done it legally. I think he should have the ability to address this to protect his company and his clients.

You need to cover them up.

There is, quite obviously, age appropriate ways to explain things that mean you are teaching your child tolerance and understanding about things, without instead just pretending things don't exist and shifting the issue onto people who absolutely should not be stigmatised like the OP.

Agreed. I’m actually quite shocked at the amount of people that seem to think exposing such tiny children to this kind of thing is normal and acceptable. They have a whole life ahead of them to learn about these kinds of things. You can teach children that everyone looks different without needing them to be exposed to these kind of things every week.

I said previously it’s a tricky situation, and it really is. I’m not sure the boss can force them to cover up, but at the same time they are working with children and have a responsibility to safeguard them. Any other industry I think it would be acceptable, I’m not sure when working with such small children if it is and I can understand both sides of that argument.

Ultimately if enough parents decide they don’t feel comfortable and go elsewhere, the session won’t run so the OP will be out of a job anyway. I would imagine there have been some complaints from parents for the franchisee to have the conversation in the first place so it’s a hard one.

Why are so many people clutching their pearls assuming that OP is planning to disclose the origin of the scars? She's already said she passes them off as being from a fall. The level of judgement that appears to be getting levelled at OP herself for having the scars in the first place is disturbing, though, and I think it's a depressing indictment of how much prejudice still exists around against mental health issues. Some people really do appear to inhabit very narrow little worlds.

Having said all that, I liked a pp's response that kids should be taught not to comment on other people's bodies anyway.

I stand by my opinion that no 2-5 year old should be having any kind of conversation related to self harming. I don’t care if there is an age appropriate way of explaining things, it’s not an age appropriate topic. Just the same as I wouldn’t be having a conversation about having sex, being transgender, racial abuse. You can teach your kids to be respectful of others without needing to discuss adult topics with them. Self harming is an adult topic that a 2 year old should not be forced into a conversation about.

I’m glad you are in a better place, well done.
You deserve to be seen, if anything your scars might encourage older children who think about harming to talk to you about their problems, your scars aren’t going to encourage anyone who doesn’t want to self harm into trying it.
Your manager shouldn’t have said that. I was taking back once when I noticed a lady serving on the till with large self harm scars, it wasn’t offensive but I felt uncomfortable and sad for her, my issue not hers.

This is not how this works. Kids at 8 are not just suddenly self harming because they saw a video online.

That's irrelevant.

Noone is forcing a 2-5 yo into a conversation around self harm. At that age the chat can be as simple as "that's just how that person's body looks" or "their body must have got hurt and that's how it's healed, we don't need to be afraid and we also don't stare"

There's zero need to get into the specifics of self harm and kids will not make that assumption as that's an adult assumption to make.

Equally as a safeguarding professional I'd say that if you aren't having conversations with your toddler about sex in an age appropriate way then you're missing the boat. The conversation looks like - if someone doesn't like something we stop straight away, if they don't feel comfortable with something they use their big voice and say stop I don't like that, and discussions around how we are the boss of our own bodies. Again the specifics don't come into it but you are laying the foundations which are essential to build on later. It's essential and protective parenting at an age appropriate level.

Op I hope you're feeling OK after this thread, I've been really shocked and honestly quite disappointed at the lack of awareness and misinformation shown here. I hope you're able to see that for what it is and not take any of that on yourself.

Why? Because most of us, at some point or another have experienced people who cannot help but project their issues onto others. Whether that be us as adults or more worryingly to our children.

My example was in my DD chosen sport. She did it from 6 to 16 and its the kind of sport that has some very educated people involved. It should have been one of the safest environments imaginable. TBH it was.

But there were still people involved (On a more fun basis) who had suffered. Depression was a big one. Self harm was another. Then there was eating disorders. OMG was there eating disorders. My daughter got to world level so she was able to access all the information she needed regarding healthy eating. We as parents were taken away for 1-1 discussions with dieticians to discuss issues, triggers and signs we needed to look out for. The children were given healthy information about how to fuel their exercise. REDs was a huge deal. We were about as informed as you could get.

So why did i constantly have to tell mainly women at her gym that we are fully upto speed on how to control her diet (In fact my daughter was so informed she put her own diets together and they were healthy, diverse and full of proper nutrients). That my DD ate perfectly well and in fact ate a brilliant diet that actually provided much more calories than the experts were advising? The projection of issues was astounding. Are you sure? I know someone who will chat to your dd? She looks too slim? etc etc.

In the end i had to be extremely blunt to these very educated and caring people to leave their issues at the door or no longer have any contact with my child. No, a few years later my DD is packed with muscle, has a figure to die for and even though she no longer competes is as fit as a fiddle. Zero eating, health or mental disorders.

Op has posted a previous thread where the claimed she had a 16 year old daughter who was being asked to cover up her scars, so i’m not actually convinced op is genuine tbh.

Oh no…

Even if the thread is questionable, it’s opened up an interesting debate and some polarised discussions