AIBU to keep my two-year-old at nursery when displaying increasing aggressive behaviour?

[ThePoisedOpalBird]

I'm partly posting here as it gets more replies and also because i'm not sure whats best.

I have a lovely 2 year old who has been put on a ABC review due to aggressive behaviour. So far he has been on it a week and it seems to have got worse! He has had around 12 incidents in the space of a week ranging from pushing kids down to trying to hit with items or just straight out smacking them in the face. So far nursery have not identified a single trigger!

He is casually walking up to these kids seemingly happy and then hurting them. There is no overwhelming crying or other kids taking his toys etc. He just seems to walk up to them, hurt them, smile and now runs away from his teachers (I assume as he now knows they are going to remove him from the situation and do a different activity with him.

I'm at a loss of how nursery are going to tackle this when there is seemingly no cause? Could he just be bored?

I guess my aibu is do I let nursery continue to try and work this out and hopefully he doesn't end up being kicked out. Or would it be more reasonable to remove him and keep him at home?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Well baby does often feed every hour or so. I feed fully on demand. He also sleeps on me and next to me and feeds to sleep and wont be put down into bouncers, swings or cots so no it isnt super easy to just leave him. But I will try taking my toddler to the park around the corner on his dads day off next week that way if my partner cant settle him or he needs a feed sooner he can get to me easily. In a few months it will be easier to leave him for an hour or so.

Of course I correct him! He is actually generally very good with other kids. We went to a big soft play party yesterday and he was the youngest there and played beautifully for an hour and a half.

We correct him when he throws toys (I don't have an issue with him dumping out toys at home as thats how he plays) but he isnt allowed to just throw toys around he gets told No and the toy gets removed or we leave the place we are playing at. He gets told no biting. But he finds the word no funny. So I can tell him No until I am blue in the face but it has no impact on him.

If you have any suggestions on how to make him actually respect the word no please feel free.

But besides removing toys when he throws them, saying no and leaving places when he hurts people. I don't really know what to do. The consequences for a 2 year old are very limited!

He gets told off if he bites grandad and he just laughs and my dad is scary when he says no but my toddler doesn't really care.

I appreciate the suggestions. I will 100% give a try although we do most of this stuff already except he doesnt dance and doesn't really enjoy the playground.

I'm not sure they will give him the same happiness that the rough play does but I will try to make it as fun as I can for him.

They are trying to break it to you very gently that he is a handful.

The communication technique/ approach they are using is called sandwiching.

Sandwiching is supposed to have the effect of not sending you home in tears, despairing of your child, feeling that your parenting is being criticized, and getting your back up in defensive mode.

It seems that it has just had the effect of confusing you.

Well yes when they are telling me how much they love having him, how lovely he is with the other kids 90% of the time hugging and kissing and playing. And that the hitting is developmentally normal and we will find a trigger and way to help him.

None of that in the slightest gives me any indication that they would like him removed.

Thank you for all the replies. Lots of helpful comments thank you :)

@ThePoisedOpalBird So your baby died what he wants too! Every hour? Why? Substitute a bottle. Stop him sleeping on you? Why does he need this? I’d want a life and your DS is probably jealous.

Say No with purpose. Not a meek “no darling” . Try an angry face. Raise your voice. Make him take notice. Does he find nursery staff a joke too? I did occasionally, very occasionally, make absolutely certain my DDs knew I was very displeased. They didn’t dare laugh at that moment. They were shocked I was cross. Shock him! I really dislike dc who laugh at adults. Start to mean what you say and don’t let him tip toys everywhere!

I actually find this post scary.

Your two year old child is randomly seeking out other children, your baby and adults to hurt while smiling before and after. This sounds like callous unemotional behaviour which is a real thing even in two year olds. You won’t find a trigger and thats the scary part.

You are enabling his behaviour by the rough play but won’t stop as it’s the only thing he really engages with. Are you happy your child’s socialisation with you is essentially physical fighting?

You go on a lot about what a wonderful boy he is and he may act like it some of the time but he actively seeks to hurt others. He isn’t wonderful if he does this - his behaviour isn’t at all normal.

On a secondary note breastfeeding your three month old every hour is pretty excessive. At this point it should be every 3-4 hours. Someone else can hold the baby between feeds. Spend time with your oldest child and please understand what is really going on here.

There might be deep communicative reasons behind the behaviour, but it might just be fun for him! The other children probably react in an exciting way when he does it, and so do the staff. For young children, it doesn’t matter if it’s negative rather than positive attention- attention is attention.

definitely try and give some 1:1 time with him, regularly. But this may well be something that will improve with time as he matures. Nursery must make sure they’re not encouraging it. Might be worth considering a childminder.

He is bloody 3 months old! No I am not introducing a bottle yet as we have only just had a second tongue tie cutting and are trying to improve his latch. I feed him often every hour as he cries for a feed. I am not saying no to a 3 month old crying because he is hungry or needs comfort. He is 3 months old for gods sake. And yes he sleeps on me otherwise he screams and pukes everywhere and then guess what he has to feed again as he has puked and my poor toddler gets overstimulated and angry because he doesnt like the crying! So whilst my baby is literally a baby who cannot currently do anything for himself yes I will give him whatever he needs. It is a stage that will pass.

He gets told No in a very stern loud tone! He does not care. Nursery redirect they dont shout or anything or do timeouts etc.

I will do everything I can to improve his behaviour and some of the replies on this thread have been very helpful

I have no issues with play fighting with my son. I did it with my dad when I was younger. Being thrown onto the sofa and spun around was alwayd great fun. BUT if it is causing an issue I will look for other ways to meet his needs.

Nursery are the ones saying how lovely he is. How sweet he is with the other kids hugging, kissing, checking if they are okay when they are sad, playing with them. Yes it is a concern he is seeking to push and shove but I am not sure he really understands that he is hurting them.

To start with there is nobody else to hold the baby between feeds as it is just me and the boys most of the time. Baby also feeds often every hour sometimes every 2. I have been told by GP, HV and lactation consultant that this is 100% correct and I should not be witholding the breast even if its just he needs comfort.

We did consider a childminder but there is only 2 and both are full with extremely long waiting lists. If nursery doesn't end up being the right place for him I will pull him out and keep him home. But I will let nursery finish their ABC forms and see what they say and go from there. (Whilst trying to worl on the behaviour at home of course)

they seem to be focusing on fast triggers and not looking at slow triggers as well.
a slow trigger is a build up over time. For instance if you’re tired, feeling unwell, find lots of noise or being in a crowded place a bit annoying. The slow triggers simmer and then something small happens and a behaviour of concern happens or the slow triggers simmer build up causing a behaviour of concern. Is a slow trigger feeling overwhelmed with changes at home so he is feeling dysregulated.
Also getting taken away may be a reason. He needs space and that’s how he gets it.
under stimulated needs support to do some more taxing play.
wanting one to one attention.
not sure what to do next.
is a child in the room making a noise he dislikes.

Hm very interesting but sounds like it would be extremely hard for them to identify these slow triggers?

You might know it as baby signing. We used this with my eldest grandson with quite good results.
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that you would have a more relaxed child if you kept him at home for a while.

The core message is getting lost in the 'sandwich'.

That core message is the 10% of the time he is upsetting the other children, injuring the other children, and causing havoc in the room, while distracting staff from engaging with other children.

You need to ask for the unvarnished truth. Ask for a meeting. Tell them you can handle whatever they say. Assure them they don't need to massage the message.

He sounds like a sensory seeker to me. Have a read about what this looks like, you are probably one too.

And well done btw. Sounds like you have two high needs children there without much support day to day, it's just you 6 days a week, with no friends to lean on for solidarity or emotional support? That's hard.
What does their dad think about his sons' behaviour? Is he concerned at all?

I know it's stressful but they develop so quickly- most little 2 year old "biters/hitters" will not behave this way at 3. So continue to take him to nursery and be consistant at home and soon this will be all forgotten.

They don't want to have a meeting until after the 4 weeks of ABCs as they want to monitor the behaviour first to see if they can find a trigger and help him.

Yes well at the end of the day they are getting paid aren’t they. That’s exactly the stance mine took until my son was nearly killed and they realised they might have a big court case on their hands. I am presuming the other parents do not know the extend of your son’s behaviour, I am confident if they did they would quite rightfully be kicking off.

The fact still stands, your child is violently attacking multiple children every day. The fact he is a happy smiley boy until he attacks someone is not a reason to send him in.
Any person with an ounce of common sense would pull their child out until they can find a solution. This is making me really quite angry actually, I’m going to have to leave the thread because I am appalled at your lack of ownership on this. Excuse after excuse. You know something seriously isn’t right because you’ve posted on here. Yes he absolutely may grow out of it, however I doubt it very much in the next year or so and how many kids are going to be hurt at his expense while you wait for that to happen because you want to stay at home and cuddle your baby all day?!

Well your nursery needs reporting to Ofsted because that level of violence from one child is not normal, no matter how much you want to believe it is. I can’t believe for one minute that the staff there love having a child who attacks others constantly, they are being polite in the hope you as the parent would have some common sense and take him out for them. Obviously that’s not going to happen. The feedback you are getting is called the shit sandwich - they give you a compliment first, then give you the negative bits which is the main message they want o get across, followed by another compliment. Unfortunately it seems you are only listening to the fluffy good points and ignoring the main issues in the middle.

Decided to read the rest of the comments before I leave the thread as it’s making me so angry, and pleased to have finally seen that someone with common sense has commented.

My son nearly died at nursery because of a child like this. He shouldn’t be there full stop! You are right that this is not normal, no matter how much the OP tries to convince herself it is and everyone else commenting saying it’s perfectly normal is only enabling her further. Absolutely developmentally normal for a 2 year to hit or bite someone a couple of times (although mine never did) and learn from their mistake, but not to this extent. I just feel for all the other kids going into nursery today scared they are going to be attacked by this child - and it absolutely will be happening. Kids crying not wanting their parents to leave, kids sitting by themselves scared to go near him, it’s absolutely awful!

Mother of 4, here. I'm afraid this doesn't sound like regular 2 year old behaviour (even with adjusting to a baby sibling) and you would do well to stop downplaying it. He doesn't sound 'lovely', to be quite honest with you. His behaviour sounds disturbing. Please pull him out of nursery for the sake of the other children - it simply isn't fair on them to be attacked physically every day like this. If I was another parent there, I'd be livid.

You also need to readjust your attitude around your baby needing you. Your older baby also needs you - he is still very little. Breastfeeding is not the be all and end all, and if it's disrupting family life to this extent, it's time to consider a bottle. For the sake of your older child, who is crying out for your attention.

I do feel for you - it must be very tough doing it alone six days a week.

My children didn't go to nursery at all - preschool at 3 very PT and they were fine when they started school.
Nurseries are not always great for children - noise, overstimulation, lots of other children, lack of parents, long days, away from home etc.....
Might be worth looking at Kate Silverstone's book There's no such thing as naughty. It's a brilliant book which helps you understand a child's behaviour and how to make changes to ensure you understand what your child is communicating to you. I think it also helps as a parent to understand why your child is behaving as they are and reduce the guilt that you might be doing something wrong.
You can also get the book on audible - so can listen while feeding if that's easier!!

Please ignore posters being cruel and implying your child is a psychopath in the making. No, it’s not typical behaviour, hence the ABC, but it’s also not wildly out of the ordinary in a nursery setting.
It does sound like there’s an element of sensors seeking behaviour, especially as you describe him as physical. The nursery could try providing enough activities for him to get what he needs from a sensory point of view.
It is highly unlikely they would ever ask you to leave, and I wouldn’t really advise it unless he seems to be struggling all of the time (ignore people saying he should be removed for the ‘safety’ of others. Believe me, he won’t be the only one hitting).

If for example you was to place a ball, Teddy, cup and spoon on the table and say “pass me the cup and ball please” would he be able to do that, with no other prompting or repetition? Or a Teddy, doll, brush and sponge and “can you wash the baby?”

@Mumofoneandone Most people in teaching will have come across some pretty naughty dc and very much worried about ones who show no remorse. There are indeed dc beyond naughty! The idea that parents are all blameless is also ridiculous. Society doesn’t like parents experimenting with kind hands and other modern ideas. I agree that understanding where poor behaviour comes from and trying to improve that is vital but I can assure you some dc remain truly awful. Just look at the youth courts. Many teachers spot these dc very early. Of course I’m not saying the DS here will be anything like this, but I challenge the notion there aren’t naughty dc. If you have truly met one, you will recognise the lack of remorse and lack of accountability.