AIBU to keep my two-year-old at nursery when displaying increasing aggressive behaviour?

[ThePoisedOpalBird]

I'm partly posting here as it gets more replies and also because i'm not sure whats best.

I have a lovely 2 year old who has been put on a ABC review due to aggressive behaviour. So far he has been on it a week and it seems to have got worse! He has had around 12 incidents in the space of a week ranging from pushing kids down to trying to hit with items or just straight out smacking them in the face. So far nursery have not identified a single trigger!

He is casually walking up to these kids seemingly happy and then hurting them. There is no overwhelming crying or other kids taking his toys etc. He just seems to walk up to them, hurt them, smile and now runs away from his teachers (I assume as he now knows they are going to remove him from the situation and do a different activity with him.

I'm at a loss of how nursery are going to tackle this when there is seemingly no cause? Could he just be bored?

I guess my aibu is do I let nursery continue to try and work this out and hopefully he doesn't end up being kicked out. Or would it be more reasonable to remove him and keep him at home?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

A 30 minute walk? He isn't a dog. He needs your time and your attention.
Leave the baby with your partner and do something with him. The kid probably feels he has lost his place in the family and doesn't yet have the cognitive ability to communicate that without lashing out.

I understand your worries, but this level of socialisation before school is a relatively new thing- I didn't go to school until I was 5 and I never went to nursery, and most of my friends didn't either- we were fine.
You need to build his communication skills at home, you can't expect others to do it for you.

Nurseries are experts at getting quite small children to follow tasks/rituals/instructions. It can take a bit of practice at home. It is quite unusual though if he doesn't follow instructions ever at all. Do you mean even for things when you're playing a game together which he's enjoying? For example if you are getting him dressed, will he push his arm through a sleeve when asked? If you hold out his shoe will he put his foot into it? Or if you were playing with a ball and said "Throw it to me!" or "Get it in the box!" would he (try to) do that?

It is vv normal of course for 2yos to be masters of "No!" around things they don't want to do but it is normal IME for them to understand and follow instructions when it's something which is fun or which they see the benefit of.

No he isn't a dog but it would be a 'walk' or probably a push in the pram around the corner to the park!

Unfortunately it just isnt that simple when the baby is exclusively breastfed so I cant just 'leave the baby with him' to go out with my toddler.

Also personally I don't like to be away from the baby who is with me 24 hrs a day for long so I wouldn't just leave the baby. At the moment we could probably cope with a hour to the park around the corner on my partners day off and if he needed me in that time my partner could bring him over.

It will be able to be for a longer stretch as he gets a bit older.

Thats helpful to know regarding not going to nursery and just heading to school (although we had said I would consider going back to work after my second hits 2 so that may have to go on hold)

This may sound ridiculous but are there any good books or anything resources to help him with his communication. And how does he practice it if he isn't having a lot of interaction with kids his age.

As I said above my social skills are very low so I am not a good model for him and we only have a toddler group once a week and honestly I hate them and so does he as they are just open play toys and we used to have to just leave as he couldn't just throw all the toys on the floor like he does at home.

You have your answer- you are giving 100% of your attention and love to the baby and you 2 year old is lashing out because it is completely unfair- I agree with him.

He doesn't play games with me. I have managed to get him to play with magnatiles with me but he doesn't follow instructions with it. He gets me to build a box so he can fill it with stuff and then smash it. He is selective with instructions. If it is somethint he wants to do (unload the dishwasher) then he will help. If its trying to play a game or stop doing something not so much!

He hates getting dressed. Sometimes he will cooperate slighly but 90% of the time he runs away and I have to force his clothes on. He can be begging me to go outside or see grandad but wont actually willingly get ready to go out even though he knows he needs clothes and shoes to go out 🙈

Type into google something like “shared attention activities for toddlers speech and language” just 5 mins a day is all you need. Aside from that, reading, singing, general chatter (not from an iPad) and exposure to different places, environments etc.
The reason children needing to be ‘socialised’ before school is a new development, is because our understanding has changed. A big part of school readiness is being able to share a space with other children, share, interact, follow simple routines, pay attention. I’m not saying children need to go to nursery, but if they don’t they should be regularly attending groups and activities to help with these things.

It is not 100% of my attention but yes the baby is with me all the time.

But what exactly is the solution to that with a young baby. He is exclusively breastfed so I am his food source which being only 3 months he eats frequently. He also hates to be put down to the point he is sick so what exactly is the solution except time?

I am also solo parenting 6 days a week (3 of those toddler is at nursery) and I only have 1 pair of arms!

Thank you I will look at that tomorrow!

So if we don't have groups etc available around us then we are better to try to keep him at nursery for socialisation (but maybe reduce him to 2 days once baby isnt so needy?)

These have good resources for speech/communication. https://speechandlanguage.org.uk/

There is a good series called The Out of Sync Child including Growing an In Sync Child which has lots of ideas for activities to help development, although this is more physical development than communication.

You said you did an ASQ questionnaire - it's the 27 month one you want if he's not quite 2y3m old. They are quite specific to exact ages.

However in general - he is 2. You have a newborn who is very demanding. It is hot. You have a HV appointment and the nursery are implementing their own plans. It's likely a phase and he will likely grow out of it without a huge amount of fuss or intervention. Yes do keep an eye in case it's part of a wider pattern or in case anything gets worse. But mainly, don't stress. He's only very little yet. It's very unlikely you have done anything terribly wrong.

FWIW I don't think the poster was saying you need to have a solution. It is unfair and it's OK that it's unfair - life is not fair 100% of the time and even 2 year olds can handle that. They might not handle it totally in the way we would love but he is not being traumatised or damaged by the experience.

This is a temporary phase of life and it will get easier, for all of you.

I’m begging you, remove him until a suitable solution is found.

My son was pushed over by a child like yours at nursery, he had severe concussion and nearly died because of it. Violence is not a joke in these settings. Nursery staff have so many other children to look after, they can’t keep an eye on your child all the time and if there is nothing obviously triggering him, that makes it impossible to know when he is going to attack another child. It’s not fair on the other children or the other parents who may have no choice but to send their kids in, knowing they may get hurt. It’s also not fair on the nursery staff who will most definitely be having to deal with very angry parents who don’t understand why they are not protecting their children.

I really appreciate your perspective as another parent from the other side of it.

I think based on the replies on here I will let nursery continue with the ABC review for the next 3 weeks and then see where it is at. As they seem to suffer with the random aggression far more than we do at home I am hoping they might have more oppportunity to correct it (ontop of us trying to teach him at home with books etc)

But your opinion is really helpful for when we have the meeting with nursery in a few weeks.

Sorry OP but this is a really selfish mindset to have! Your child, YOUR child, is actively hurting several children a day and you think is acceptable to keep sending him in so he socialises? One or two incidents, I would completely agree, but this is so much more than that. He needs to be removed until he is a bit older. Stop making excuses for his behaviour, most 2 year olds do not behave like this to the extent yours has. He certainly isn't lacking socialisation at nursery and other children do not deserve to be your sons punching bags while he figures his communication issues out. That’s for you to help him do as a parent, in a safe and controlled way which a nursery cannot provide. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing my son was going to physically attack multiple children the next day. It’s shocking actually.

Why can’t you remove him as of tomorrow and have the conversation with nursery next week? Don’t send him in for another 3 weeks knowing he will be hurting other children. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your son constantly being attacked?

I can see you have a young baby and it’s difficult but your son also needs parenting. You chose to have two kids, so no matter how exhausted you may be, you have to show up for both of them.

I guess from my point of view if nursery deemed him to be a serious risk of seriously hurting someone they wouldn't be happy waiting another 3 weeks to sit down and have a meeting about the behaviour.

They have said at every handover this week how lovely and funny and kind and loving he is (outside of these incidents) they havent given any indication they think he isn't coping or needs removing. Infact they keep assuring me it is okay and developmentally normal and we will find a trigger/solution.

If nursery said they wanted him removed or even hinted they thought he wasn't coping I wouldn't hesitate to pull him out. But when nursery are assuring me its okay and a phase and we will work out a plan its difficult to make the decision that goes against that as the last thing I want to do is cause more issues with his communication and socialisation.

Perhaps signs of what may later be adhd?
How is his sleep/food etc?
It may well be worsened by having a needy younger sibling.
Had he been going long when baby was born?

As my eldest started when baby was only 2 months. So probably felt pushed out. Mine had a lot of issues at nursery but not particularly physical. That started at reception at 4.

But if they know yours is prone to this behaviour at moment they need to be intercepting.

Mine is autistic and adhd.

Because nursery have assured me that it is okay and developmentally normal and they want to use the plan to find the triggers.

They say every handover how much they love having him there. If they gave any indication they wanted him out or that they thought it wasn't safe to have him there I would pull him out. But when they are telling me they are love having him there and how lovely he is most of the time and what a great day he is had, I am reluctant to remove him before nursery deem it isn't the right environment for him and cause more issues for him.

I have no issues parenting my 2 children. But when nursery are having multiple issues a day whereas I only have a couple a week (and mine usually have identifiable triggers) it is very hard to help nursery elimated a problem I don't experience to the same level they do.

Sleep is amazing. When he is at home he has a 3-4 hour nap plus 10-12 hours of nightime sleep! Nursery he naps usually an hour - an hour and a half.

He eats pretty well. Typical toddler sometimes doesn't want to eat what hes offered.

Yeah hes been at nursery since he was 1. Moved to the toddler room when he was 22 months.

They are trying to intercept as much as possible but because he isnt angry when he does it I think its hard for them to always foresee as its a bit random.

I say this very gently OP but
I have been an Early years teacher & SENCO for 27yrs and it has never been my experience that 2 yr olds regularly hurt other children at nursery, unless due to a dispute over a toy etc & that is usually only in the very early days of nursery until they learn that’s not acceptable.
As he smiles before & after an incident it may be that it’s the sensory stimulation of the hurt children’s reactions, crying etc, that he’s seeking, he’s not angry & intentionally trying to hurt them.
I am a little concerned about his refusing to walk, resisting getting dressed & not following instructions, even at nursery, or when playing games etc alongside the hitting & biting.
It’s unusual for 2yr olds to hurt grandparents & baby siblings OP.
I would cut down on the play fighting, I don’t think it’s causing it but may be confusing for him, he may not be old enough to know that he can ‘fight’ with Dad but not other people.
We can usually tell which children do a lot of play fighting at home, in our experience they are the ones more likely to engage in hitting etc during disagreements with other children or just in play.
You’re doing the right thing working closely with nursery, they sound like they’re trying hard to find out why these incidents keep happening.
They are the experts & will support you & your little boy.
I hope things settle down soon.

@ThePoisedOpalBird Of course you can leave the baby for an hour or so! Why is baby attached to you 24:7? The baby doesn’t need feeding every hour! Leave the baby with DH. Nothing will happen to him.

Your 2 year old isn’t great with other dc is he? Throws toys around - but you let him do it ! Do you ever correct him? Books won’t help. You need to accept this behaviour every day isn’t normal and you need to start talking to him in plain simple words to correct him. So “no biting”, “no throwing” etc. Repeat No and make sure he knows you are displeased. No child deserves to be hurt by him and you have to be far more determined to deal with this. Maybe grandad could assist as he’s been bitten! Did grandad care?

Thank you so much for the input! Any advice for what we can replace rough play with? It makes up a large portion of our play as its the only thing he really engages with fully and enjoys.

You should take him out.

Nurseries can be overwhelming environments for some toddlers - lots of noise and activity going on. Sensory overload can happen.

There may also be kids in the room whose behaviour he is copying. He may have seen a push, smack, bite, etc. It's not always clear to toddlers that these behaviours are big No-Nos, even when a teacher/ staff member quicjly responds to the offender with a loud No/ We use gentle hands/ Hands are for playing, not hitting, etc.

Dancing, jumping on a toddler trampoline, chasing bubbles, etc.
Get him out to a playground to work off his energy there.
Buy him a really big stuffed animal to wrestle/ snuggle with.
Redirect him to 'help' with housework.
If you have outdoor space, get a sprinkler to run around in.
Introduce gentle, snuggly closeness to replace the boisterous contact.

Warmer weather is on its way. Using up energy outdoors will enable you to establish a difference between 'I door' and 'outdoor' energy just as you have indoor and outdoor voices.

As a side note, the only children I've seen in early years settings who persistently chose physicality over words in their I traction with peers were children who had a speech lag and other socio emotional development delays, as well as those whose pare to permitted a lot of rough play at home.