AIBU to keep my two-year-old at nursery when displaying increasing aggressive behaviour?

[ThePoisedOpalBird]

I'm partly posting here as it gets more replies and also because i'm not sure whats best.

I have a lovely 2 year old who has been put on a ABC review due to aggressive behaviour. So far he has been on it a week and it seems to have got worse! He has had around 12 incidents in the space of a week ranging from pushing kids down to trying to hit with items or just straight out smacking them in the face. So far nursery have not identified a single trigger!

He is casually walking up to these kids seemingly happy and then hurting them. There is no overwhelming crying or other kids taking his toys etc. He just seems to walk up to them, hurt them, smile and now runs away from his teachers (I assume as he now knows they are going to remove him from the situation and do a different activity with him.

I'm at a loss of how nursery are going to tackle this when there is seemingly no cause? Could he just be bored?

I guess my aibu is do I let nursery continue to try and work this out and hopefully he doesn't end up being kicked out. Or would it be more reasonable to remove him and keep him at home?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

It doesn't have to be for long. Could dad stay with the baby and you walk him to nursery? Maybe read a book or play his favourite game while his brother is sleeping? Short bursts would give him more attention in his mind than one longer go.

I think you’ll both probably get a lot from it! DD1 became a connoisseur of babyccinos over the newborn stage with DD2 lol. Have you managed to get to a cause of why your youngest won’t go in a pram or sling? What do you do, just hold him or is he ok in a Moses basket?

The walk to nursery is an hour round trip so I couldn't do that due to baby usually feeding a lot in the morning.

My toddler also doesnt walk so it would basically be a walk with him in the pram not looking at me so I'm not sure thats the best 1-1 time.

But I will look to take him to the local park on my partners day off and see if that helps him at all.

Yes, that's a bit of a trek!

I have tried various slings and carriers even went to a sling library. He just seems to hate them. I hold him up on my shoulder until he falls into a deep sleep and then I can usually cradle hold him.

He doesn't like the pram, moses basket or anything. Sometimes I can transfer him to the pram once he is in a deep sleep as long as we are walking at a nice brisk pace. If you stop he wakes up within 5 mins! It makes things very difficult which is why we co-sleep so I at least get a bit of rest 🙈

Yep complete other end of town which is why we drive 🤣

Behaviour is communication. His world has been turned upside down, he now has to share HIS mummy and daddy, and he gets way less attention because mummy is always with the baby, feeding it, holding it, sleeping with it... Daddy takes him away to nursery and mummy stays with the baby...

He is communicating that he is struggling with such massive changes, but he doesn't have the words. He is harming others because of it.

It's quite normal, but however velcro your baby is you really must make time for regular 1:1 with your little boy - and more than once a week.

What do you mean he doesn’t walk? Genuine question - does he have physical difficulties or refuses to?

And sorry if it’s already been asked but by ‘two’ is he just 2, 2.5 or closer to 3?

Whilst I would love to be able to do it more than once a week its very hard to do that when its the 3 of us 6 days a week (3 of those he is at nursery).

I do the best I can with the time I have. I make sure I am always the one tucking him into bed without the baby and reading his stories but besides that and maybe 45 min-1hr on the day my partner is off I am very limited.

Refuses. He will lay on the concrete and take a nap before he will willingly walk a normal walk. We are working on it but he doesn't respond to walking away from him or holding his hand or leash or anything. He wants to go in the pram and if the pram isnt there he wants to he carried and if you wont carry he will lay there. He wont scream or cry he will just curl up on the pavement and get comfy!

He is coming up to 2 yr 3 months so young end of 2!

What is is age in yrs and months? There is a big developmental range between a child who has just turned 2 and one who is close to 3?
As others have said every behaviour is communication. There will be triggers, which become a pattern but it is very difficult to identify them in a busy nursery. I doubt they have the staff to watch every minute/ second leading up to an incident amd probably miss something key.

Hes only almost 2 yr 3 months.

So far they say he is not near the child he hits before it happened. Apparently he just walks from whatever he is doing to go hurt someone. So they havent identified a trigger so far from the like 12 or so incidents hes had in a week (3 days)

I would guess that becoming a big brother and stress at nursery are factors here. It's for you to decide about keeping him in but I'd certainly reduce his time there as this is an indication that he's struggling with the environment. This article is about playgroup rather than nursery but you can use it to think about ideas for home and to agree a strategy with the nursery workers to tackle it. Toddler Hitting Other Kids at Playgroup

Thank you!

It sounds like a tricky situation. As a mum of three, I can say that these incidences aren’t normal. The odd bite if fighting over a toy might be normal but the level you’ve described is much more than what I’ve experienced from my children.

From what you’ve said, it’s not clear if he means malice, and is using the physical behaviour to get what he wants, or if he simply doesn’t understand that it’s unkind. Maybe it’s a form of communication for him.

Whats his understanding like otherwise? Does he follow instructions well? Does he react as you’ve expect to emotions, eg does he know when people are sad, or scared etc?

As adult, we often assign grown up thoughts to children that doesn’t translate. Some 2 year olds will know very well what their fighting/hitting/biting is doing, but others don’t and it’s not necessarily him intentionally hurting people.

I would be led by the nursery at this stage (if they’re decent) and also perhaps speak to the health visitor so it’s on their radar, should you need services in the future.

He laughs when you try and say something he did hurt so I'm not sure he really understands. He smiles before and after hitting at nursery so I don't think he is intending to be horrible.

Hes so so with instructions, i think nursery have more luck in that department than me!

Yes I think I will have to let the next 3 weeks on the ABC plan play out and then see what they suggest.

Also to add as I’ve just read the other posts - it’s absolutely normal to not get much 121 time with your older child(ren) when babies come along. You can’t split yourself in two and many of us exclusively breastfed and couldn’t be separated for periods of time in the early days.

It’s still not normal to hit out 7 times a day, and you said he had incidences before baby too. I don’t think this is jealousy, I think he’s lacking the understanding at the moment. It sounds like a communication issue to me.

Thank you. Hopefully it will resolve as he gains more communication skills and me and nursery will have to do what we can to minimise it for other kids sake.

Kids are usually simple creatures, it could be that nursery is just a bit more overwhelming than home or that he's realised that pushing another child results in being taken for some 1 on 1 time.

My son used to do this, completely fine at home but the moment we went into a softplay he'd punch the first kid he'd see, we didn't realise the first few times that it meant one of us would have to go in with him, it took one time of taking him home kicking and screaming to change tact, mum and dad will watch you go down the slide 3 times and then we will come in, any hitting we go home and we don't get to come in with you. He ended up getting his 1 on 1 time and learning that it was no fun hitting other kids.

Yeah at softplay it is much easier to give a consequence. If he hits anyone we leave (although in our case he doesn't actually care if we leave so i'm not sure how much it benefits) but it at least feels like we are teaching him hitting has consequences.

He sounds very overstimulated and struggling with transitions.

FWIW my DS (autistic, not saying yours is btw) also would not walk outside at all for the first 5 years of his life and nothing we tried worked. He's 7 and will now walk but he still has a pushchair for safety, but he found the transition from inside to outside difficult. This was a key point brought up in early help meetings, which helped us get some therapeutic input.

Having a new baby is a massive transition and very overstimulating and all of that pent up frustration has to come out somehow and somewhere and it could just be that it is happening at nursery. I would actually give ear defenders or headphones a go in the home. We all have our limits, SEN or not, and I think they're a useful tool.

As others have pointed out, he may also have realised cause and effect, which is a developmentally appropriate thing for children his age however what he has realised is if he causes harm to another child, the effect is he is removed to do something else. Nursery may need to modify their approach at redirecting back to the task at hand, and modelling useful language like "I need space please".

DSs nursery used to use kind hands, but that was absolutely infuriating for DS as hands do not have emotions any more than feet can be grumpy, knees can be jolly and teeth can be scared. It made no sense to him and it did not provide him with functional language that he could use to signal that he needed space or would like to change activities.

Just because nursery haven't identified a trigger doesn't mean there is no trigger. They just aren't looking at the bigger picture and trying to meet his sensory (which all children have! Again, not armchair diagnosing anybody) and regulation needs.

It's also worth considering whether this is a good fit nursery for your son, or whether they're only a good nursery for unproblematic, self regulating children who don't pose any physical problems. Having had a child like your own, I have come to realise many nurseries are the latter, and I would always ask prospective nurseries in the future what their approaches are for identifying triggers for behaviour and managing the needs of children if they show signs of distress, discomfort or unhappiness.

@ThePoisedOpalBird The best thing that happened to my 2 year old was when another toddler smacked him back. Sounds horrible but somehow he just stopped going up to other kids pushing/hitting after that.

This also makes me think maybe the goal is to leave for him. Soft plays are so overwhelming, and not every kid will express that it's overwhelming by being in tears or covering their ears.

In my experience a lot of kids go through the hitting stage and it can be completely normal and they mostly grow out of it.

I'd let nursery handle it for now, I would ask how they're dealing with him when he lashes out just so you can support the consequences being consistent. No one likes to hear their kiddo is hitting others, especially at nursery pick up, but they will have dealt with it many times and kiddo won't be the last. Try not to stress too much about it.

It’s completely normal for 2 year olds to hit others but I get that you and the nursery are trying to resolve/ improve as he is there and you want him to stay there. ABC’s can be further explored by thinking about the function of the behaviour- you have identified that he gets adult attention. Can they focus his learning on how to get that attention in a positive way? Can they look at how long he is playing happily before moving off to hurt another child? There may be a pattern eg he can manage 20 minutes then seeks out attention by hurting someone. If he does that, can they move him on at 15 minutes with a brief 1:1 interaction/ activity?
i remember DS (v long ago) used to push others at that age, it was really difficult, I had to deal with the disapproval of other parents and remove him / me. It felt isolating but he stopped after a few months