Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

[Fauxlein]

"Childfree adults to pay more in elder care contributions — report
According to a report from German media group RND, federal Health Minister Nina Warken has prepared a draft bill that would have adults without children pay a higher percentage of taxes towards publicly-funded elder care.
The bill would have contributions from childfree adults increase by 0.7% over a period of years, meaning they would pay 2.5% of their income each month. Their employer will be expected to pay 1.8%. For adults with children the rates will remain the same: 1.8% for people with one child, 1.55% for people with two children, and 1.3% for people with three or more children.
Under the proposal, all adults over the age of 23 who are working full-time would be affected.
It is unclear when Warken, a member of Chancellor Friedrich Merz's center-right Christian Democrats (CDU), will submit the draft to the cabinet. Her ministry had originally said it would present a proposal for elder care reform in mid-May. With a long-stagnating birthrate mildly buoyed by immigration, Germany needs to act fast to make sure older generations can be taken care of without placing an undue burden on young people."

YABU - German Health Minister is being unreasonable, it's not kids responsibility to look after elderly parents and is unfair to penalise child free people
YANBU - this seems like a fair counterbalance to increasing costs to the state of elder care

We will go the same way I am sure. The veneration of parents as supreme contributors to society (as if people have kids because they want to benefit society) already happens (even here. And the denigrating of people without children happens too. So we will get there.

I migrated, but I would still have contributed my share if it would have come to that, in the end it didn't. My mother died before her savings ran out. I wouldn't have left my siblings to deal with it on their own just because I left the country. I mean it wouldn't ever have been an enormous amount, the bulk of care home costs were covered by my mother's Pflegegeld and pension.
On the plus side, there are also laws about inheritance that mean you can't get disinherited (except in exceptional circumstances). I will inherit my exact share of what is left of my parents possessions once the Erbschein has been issued.

The average gross salary is higher that the UK but we pay a lot more in tax and social contributions. Also parents can't decide that their childen won't inherit from them. The whole system is different.

The idea that everything costs more for a single person may be true when compared to a couple but it is emphatically not true when compared to a family - my expenses are higher on every single level when compared to those of my single friend, because I need to live in a larger home, it needs more beds and furniture, it needs to be warm, I need a car, if we go to a restaurant it costs upwards of £120 for a meal for four, if we go on holiday it has to be in school holidays and there are four of us, meaning it costs 4-5 times what my single friend has to pay. One school trip for one of my teenaged children probably costs the equivalent of her annual holiday.

Agree. I keep reading that its more expensive to be single. Its OBVIOUS that the DINK households have the most disposable income, but a family with 2 adults and 2 or more kids is definitely going to have less money spare on average than a single person alone

Yes and what happens if you have children or are estranged or they die before you / do you get taxed in lieu of it after (?)

I don’t want children on the off chance that they may look after me in years to come.

i have also not drawn down on how many thousands of pounds it would cost for me to have NHS care whilst being pregnant multiple times, giving birth, any costs of schooling, caring etc etc etc, so I’m sure it will balance out if I do need care in the future

So long as those with kids paid for the education system and those without paid 0% of tax towards that as they do not use it - same for kids healthcare etc.

Sounds appalling. Those without children, at least if they have worked and paid tax, have already greatly subsidised the education, medical care and much more, of those who do have children.

A single person doesn't necessarily have more disposable income than a couple with two kids. It depends whether the costs that are shared (bills, rent/mortgage, council tax) save more money than is spent on kids.

For example, where I live there is not a huge difference in price between a 1 bed and 3 bed rental property, and most are band A for council tax. A couple sharing a 3 bed make a significant saving over a single person in a 1 bed. Enough to fund two children!

In the UK, at a lower income level it's even less likely, due to UC top ups, council tax discounts and so on.

Hmmm but I am doing the bulk of the caring for my parent as a single childfree person, because my siblings who do have children dont have as much time as me. (Allegedly)

Would I get a reduction in % for that?

I am also absolutely disgusted at the poll outcome.

What have we become

Good point. So those men (as it is mostly men) would get the benefit of having had kids without doing any of the work.

How does it work for parents of children who grow up to be criminals? Do they still get the benefit of their 'contribution to society'?

I was surprised to learn that this is not new and taxing the childless more is already in place in Germany and has been for many years.

For example, Germany’s current system already has a childlessness surcharge. A childless employee typically pays 2.4% of relevant income towards long-term care insurance, compared with 1.8% for someone with one child, and less still for those with multiple children.

This new bill is proposing to increase the current childless surcharge.

Absolutely shocking. What is this Distopian shit from Germany?!

Yes it's not new - been happening for ages. As a childless person I'm not opposed per se but i would be interested to know how Germany guarantees that older ppl without children actually get the help they need. We know in the UK that getting social care is incredibly difficult because the threshold to qualify is so high and that perversely those without adult children despite being more reliant on it, are less likely ti get it because they lack someone to advocate ie battle the system for them.

does the state in Germany guarantee a certain level of care and support and proactively identify ppl who are old and without children?

The social system and health care is vastly better here than in the UK.

Old people without family (or with useless family) will have a case worker from the Sozialamt (might depend on the Land what it is actually called) who are in charge making sure they receive the care they need.

It is not parents using education etc though, it’s children.

All of us adults have had an education each, it allows us to be productive tax paying members of society.

Similarly my kids will grow up to pay tax- no education, no future taxpayer.

I kind of assumed it was - whereas here....

Thank you :) - I shall go and find out more! I'm always interested in how other countries solve the problems we have too

There is a bit cultural effort to support aging parents in Germany so I can see why it might work there. In the UK it might seem unfair. They do have a birthratw problem though.

Your last sentence made me laugh

There is a care crisis in Germany as well and it will get only worse. It's an important conversation to have.

There was a notorious case some years back of a woman being prosecuted for the funeral costs of her estranged father, who had abused her as a child. People were horrified - it’s really not like everyone thinks that’s ok. I think there are now exemption clauses for when the parent has committed certain crimes, but it’s tricky if they weren’t convicted for it.
Remember the responsibility cuts both ways: children have certain financial obligations to parents, but it’s also virtually impossible to disinherit children altogether.