DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

[weetabix80]

Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

My daughter did not take naturally to sitting at the table & found it harder than her brother, but we simply had rules that we stuck to:

• no food anywhere except the table, so if you want to eat you need to sit at table
• limit snacks. A lot kids these days are bored at the table because they graze on snacks constantly and never get properly hungry for the meal
• engage with them. You can't expect kids to sit quietly while adults ignore them to chat amongst themselves
• avoid very lengthy meals out with very young kids. They learn to associate the table as a place where they will be forced to sit for hours bored and will play up at any suggestion of a sit down meal

My husband has unmanaged ADHD and was brought up by a narcissist mother also with undiagnosed ADHD. I prefix this with: the ADHD is SEVERE. It’s not like other ADHD (before I get the comments ) because it’s been unmanned and exacerbated by his upbringing.

he has 0 patience, takes 0 responsibility for everything, nothing is ever his remit, everything is always someone else’s fault….

however he has a sense of entitlement that he should get to decide what happens and how things should be. He sets high standards for everybody else as it makes him feel in control, and more significant on holiday he thinks it’s important to show other people we have the “perfect family” or rather he could only produce the perfect family.

he also has a very unhealthy reasoning that if anyone does the smallest thing to annoy him it gives him the right to get realiy angry with everyone.

it may be completely different to your situation but just some food for thought.

It’s funny how the woman is always at fault for everyone’s behaviour.

We’re talking about very little DCs here who are out of their routine and on holiday.

And yet posters are bending backwards to justify the DH acting like a petulant cunt and effing and jeffing around the place in a strip rather than parenting his DCs. Why is it all on the OP?

It's about balancing expectations. We let our children watch an iPad or run around close to us (if an outside suitable venue and not annoying anyone) whilst waiting for food. But when it arrived they knew expectation was to sit and eat for at least 15 mins, no screens, no getting up unless needed toilet.

At this age it's about picking your battles, otherwise you will be exhausted. Try to agree with DH what your non negotiables are and stick to them. This might need some movement from both of you as it sounds like you have different perspectives, but you need to be consistent and work as a team, otherwise behaviour will just get worse

My kids sat well at a table from 3. We might have the occasional hard night if they were overtired. Do you have things with you like colouring books and pens or puzzles/ game to give then the best chance of sitting quietly to wait? They do need firm boundaries and a warning you will split them up if they continue to disrupt other diners.

Then sorry to be harsh but maybe you both should have considered carefully whether he was realistically going to be capable of facilitatating the right family environment for children to be raised. His condition is not an excuse for shitty, emotionally damaging parenting.

No such thing as a “dream holiday” with young children…

he (your DH) is still learning this. He sounds miserable and childish and it sounds like you are in charge of regulating everyone’s moods..,

hope he can snap out of it as his shit mood only makes everyone have a worse time

FWIW my DH has (what is now diagnosed) as raging ADHD, and he managed to learn to control his behaviour and moods for the sake of the kids

it is not an excuse for shitty parenting. Can he hold in his displeasure at work or does he swear and cuss at his boss too? Or is he able to control how he reacts a bit there? 😕

my sister & I are just back from a holiday with our 3 boys who are 6, 4 and 3. They sat up at the table and ate dinner and had a conversation with us every night. We are not perfect parents and they are not perfect children but that’s a perfectly age appropriate expectation. However your husbands standards re the other stuff sound too high. Tbh think you are both at the wrong ends of the spectrum

The time to start instilling some discipline was as soon as they learned to walk.I don't know when you think they will be old enough to be disciplined, but I can promise you that by the time you start, it will be too late. NOW is when they should be learning to listen, wait their turn, not pester you, and to take no for an answer. They need to learn to care about consequences right now - not when the consequences can cause lasting damage to their futures.

Dad is overcompensating for Mum's refusal to rein her kids in.

Holidays are only enjoyable from personal experience once your kids get to around 6 upwards, they can sit and eat meals without constant need to entertain and their behaviour is more manageable. Your DH is being a dick expecting adult behaviour from toddlers however.

We had a holiday from hell with ours when they were around 7,4 and 2 - and didn't go again for about 3 years. We both came back so stressed, the kids routine in bits... wasn't worth it.

But why do they?

BECAUSE CHILDCARE SETTINGS HAVE BOUNDARIES THAT ARE ENFORCED. And children thrive on knowing they are cared about enough for parents/carers to give them limits.

Of course our kids get away with more where they feel relaxed (home) but that isnt the point. Kids still need to know where their behaviour will lead them, for good or bad.

And thanks, I think after being a teacher for years, a parent for 35 years and a grandparent, I probably know just a little bit more than you do 😂

If you don’t teach your children to behave at home they are horrible when you are out with them. Learn your lesson and start being a proper parent.

Finally, a post from @aWeeCornishPastie focuses on the real issue @weetabix80

Your husbands language and temper around the kids it’s absolutely unacceptable…as is blaming you when he sees behaviour eh doesn’t like.

Banging his cutlery on the table, swearing at the kids and being generally bad tempered around them is absolutely out of order.

Hes creating an awful atmosphere that the kids will be absorbing.

Stop treading on egg shall around him and have a serious conversation about how he’s absolutely failing as a parent.

But nor is being a proper parent expecting them to slog through activities that would only appeal to an adult during their holiday, snapping at them and being an arsehole for an entire holiday and saying emotionally immature things like 'you're making me sad' just because they won't sit still for a meal and not instilling any actual discipline or guidance on how to achieve the desired behaviour . In fact this is arguably more damaging. So why is none of the responsibility on dad to raise these kids? Oh wait because he's a man...

I think your DH needs to adjust his expectations. 3 and 4 year olds will never behave perfectly all the time. Yes it’s important to not be a permissive parent but it won’t result in perfect behaviour at these ages.

I would say that your DH’s behaviour is probably worse than the children’s . He’s effectively having a toddler tantrum but as an adult man with a mature brain who should know better. Yes, kids can be frustrating but that’s to be believed expected. Your time to have relaxing holidays will come again in the future. I’m sorry you have to put up with his behaviour, sounds like he’s ruining the holiday for everyone.

Well our youngest are twin 2 and a 3 and they all sit at the table at meal times with the rest of there siblings and me and dh..all brought up that's there's a time and place for everything

Yes, kids get excited when on holiday or a day trip, don’t we all? But behaviour at meal times starts early in parenting doesn’t it? And that is a job for both parents too.

Does your husband discipline them differently to you? If so, how? And does he get better results? Or doesn't he - because you step in and stop him? Does he say they behave better when he has them on his own?

Kids can be taught to do as they're told the first time at three - but only if the parents set the same rules and expectations and both enforce them consistently and in a way the child can understand. If you're doing nothing to control them and he's going straight from nothing (no engagement) to rage with nothing in between (like telling them clearly and calmly what the expectation is), it's no wonder they're confused. And no wonder they get scared when he's aggressive and angry and go wailing to you for comfort. You've both got to discipline them in a way that's firm but without shouting and aggression. It's perfectly reasonable to expect them to sit at the table when told to, but it won't happen with the way you're both approaching things at the moment. It sounds like you're ignoring their behaviour, he's yelling and then you're giving them the message that they don't have to listen to or obey him either - is that right? So they just want to avoid the scary man and stay with mummy who lets them do what they want. Nothing will change while this is the dynamic. You need to have a serious talk about how you both are going to change how you handle the kids, and start both doing the same thing.

One day your dh will be a miserable old man whose kids don't wan anything to do with him. Hes missing these amazing early years

I somehow doubt that. My dad was a grumpy git when we were kids. Both of us loved him very much and would have done anything for him. He died at 99 greatly loved and much missed.

He sounds unbearable!!

Generally though we didn’t enjoy holidays when DC1 was tiny. It’s like trying to do the same stuff and keep them safe in an entirely foreign environment!! After two painful long haul holidays we stayed home and did more mini breaks in the UK. Then when DC2 was tiny, Covid hit, so we were grounded anyway. He didn’t go on a plane till he was 4 and by then the bigger one was 6, so it was much more fun and manageable to take them overseas.

I wholeheartedly believe the theory that untreated neurodivergence develops into narcissism, and frequently abusive behaviour. Controlling others is a way of getting your own needs met. Many families learn to tiptoe around the most dysfunctional, angry and unpredictable member.

Especially in straight, white men who are conventionally attractive, there's often an absolute refusal to believe that there could be anything wrong with them. Add on the fact that some may genuinely end up successful due to their ADHD or other factors of privilege. It becomes a volatile combination of an overblown ego, low or zero empathy, PDA, sensory and regulation issues, and the ever increasing pressure to mask around others.

I also don't buy the claim that most ND adults have too much empathy. In my experience, they tend to have selective or performative empathy for things that they feel "serve" them in the moment. So they may be extremely empathetic to a colleague telling them a sob story, or they might feel emotions when there is enormous social pressure to do so such as telling people how much you love your parents. But on the whole, plenty of ND people do not have a lot of empathy and are more prone to abusive or impulsive behaviour. They also have a strong sense of justice which can often go awry in the sense if someone deals them a tiny slight, they feel justified to wish that person serious harm or even death.

Most ND-narc men also tend to treat strangers/colleagues with far more consideration and care than their own family. Possibly also because they're pressured to mask around strangers and are terrified someone they respect might see a crack in their facade. At home they don't need to mask as much so they often treat their wife and kids like garbage. They were often brought up by mothers who knew about their "deficits" and bent over backwards to accommodate them. They expect their wife and children to do exactly the same without sacrificing an ounce of their own comfort.