DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

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Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

Yes, they were random musings. Turns out when you're semi-intelligent you can put yourself into the shoes of others. Sorry to deprive you of your gotcha! moment.

Your husband's language is unacceptable, there's not debating that! However I do think you should be meeting in the middle with regards to the kids. My DD is 2 and we have put time and effort into making sure she is able to sit at table without screens for up to an hour if we are eating out. We pack lots of entertainment and try to involve her as much as possible. Kids will be kids, and you can't expect them to behave like robots, but I do think they should be encouraged to respect others and their surroundings. I think the main issue is you are not presenting as a united front due to stark differences in parenting approach, and kids are quick to pick up on this!

I would immediately take the book with a firm 'no' and held eye contact, I would not be doing, 'if you hit your brother again...'

That kind of immediate and (simulated) natural consequence does not elicit the same spiral into dysregulation and an ongoing 'incident' as an invitation to engage in bad behaviour 'if you hit your brother again'. You have to tell and show children (and adults sometimes) what you want them to do, not what you don't want them to do.

In your example, you have said '...hit your brother again' and what often happens is that the child will hit their brother again.

The problem is not that they don’t behave on holiday at meal times, it’s that they’ve not been taught to behave at any mealtimes. Kids eating politely, sitting at the table requires daily training. And when they’re taught at home- where consequences like no pudding or time out from the table are easy, they will be practiced to behave well in public. The holiday meal should be the reward, not the training ground. Obviously your kids are not going to sit well, that’s not their fault. So your DH is being unreasonable to expect them to translate adult emotions of gratitude for a holiday into a polite mealtime. He (and you) have failed to discipline and train them to eat at mealtimes. Now you know, you can make the changes!

It sounds like you let the kids run wild and explain away their bad behaviour.
Are you a gentle parent by any chance?

When kids are in school it’s totally different. Different atmosphere, different adults and different routines. Kids will always play up more for their parents.

I think holidays are hard - can be really busy, out of routine, over stimulating. If over kids are also up and down from their sets, or on a phone etc, the little ones pick up on it. Also your dream holiday may not be their dream holiday. You’re not wrong to want your holiday, but it still might not be theirs, or they may just be giddy with excitement. I think it’s ok to loosen the reins on holiday, and tighten them when you get home. Different location, different rules.

If it was my husband being like that I’d tell him to leave us to it until he was calm. I’d feel let down but I’d hate his frustration. I also agree he shouldn’t leave all the parenting to you. It’s not just the mother’s job.

The swearing is absolutely appalling. I despair at some of the language a sizeable majority of parents use in front of their children. They should be ashamed of themselves. We all have a moment of weakness, but it really should be the extremely rare and ideally not at all exception. A teacher friend tells me that they can generally tell "the language of the home". He needs to do a lot better.

Your husband sounds like he's being petulant, but I do think he has a point. You need to discuss your expectations and strategy and be a team, and I think your expectations are low, and his maybe a bit high for a first holiday at that age. Communicate and present a united front. The kids need to do better, but Rome wasn't built in day.

Except for holidays, do you take them out for meals during their regular days at home?

DD was always very well behaved in restaurants (except for a couple times) and I honestly think it’s because she’s been out for meals pretty much since she was born, so it was never an odd environment for her.

Also, if they just want you, what is HE going to do to stop that? Where’s his role here?

This is why you don’t go on “nice” holidays with kids under 5.
There’s not really such a thing as a holiday when they’re so young, it’s really more a change of scenery with the same old parenting challenges you have at home.

I will say you sound like you’re a bit too permissive as a parent though, just accepting that they don’t listen rather than actually working on it.

He's an abusive bully who is emotionally abusing his children.
He's behaving like a toddler himself.

Do not tolerate this.
Do not have more children with him.
Rethink your future.
Your poor children.

Presumably because OP says she’s is laid back when it comes to their behaviour, “too laid back”, but her DH is not. So it sounds like he’s happy to discipline and has higher expectations. The problem is, if one parent lets them get away with blue murder, they’ll act up whether the other parent is strict or not, because they get away with it 50% of the time.

By those ages DC should be able to sit and eat a meal and understand basic requests, your DC won't always be 3 & 4.

So many parents let their DC do as they please and then suddenly start trying to discipline their DC once they're in their early teens by which time it far to late, they're left blaming the DC for not listening yet don't put two and two together to the fact that their DC haven't had to listen to rules in the past and there's no way they're going to start at that age.

I am a laid back parent probably too laid back

As you say yourself you're probably too laid back, probably not helping the situation.

My twin boys were your husband’s dream and I was very smug.
My daughter, born four years later, was absolutely not. If I’m totally honest, I don’t know if I changed what I did with my daughter (I was much happier, laid back, had a partner etc.) or if it’s her personality (she is very different to the boys).

Holidays with young kids are hard work and don’t bear any resemblance to the relaxing ones you have pre kids. It takes some getting used to and I imagine your DH hasn’t managed his expectations accordingly. Of course young kids can be extra difficult at times and there are things you can do to mitigate that, but you have to have a bit of give and take.

Bit strange to go waste money on a dream holiday with v young kids even disney land kids will still be kids - certainly not my dresm

your husband is an unreasonable dick

You and DH are not both on the same parenting page. I’m mainly with DH. Feral kids make for unpleasant outings - for you and others. Can you sit down with DH and agree some strategies. Some really good suggestions have been given on this thread - go early, keep it short, take entertainment, make it clear bad behaviour results in going back to hotel, follow through. Long term if things don’t improve your marriage is at risk as DH isn’t enjoying his life.

I’m kind of leaning towards your DH POV here (minus the language around the kids).
My DD is 4, very bouncy and moving around etc and talks the legs off anyone and everyone.

However - I’m strict and don’t accept any messing around or bad behaviour/ what I deem as rude. That includes being sat at the table correctly and not messing around in restaurants. We go away an awful lot and do lots in the UK- no chance would I allow her to be rude/disrespecting of others when out.

Regardless Of age and ‘being a child’. Children need firm boundaries on how to act and unfortunately it’s part of being a parent to teach them to behave in those settings! Hopefully you can work with your DH to find a good middle ground! And can enjoy the rest of your break together ❤

She’s nor parenting alone so he has some influence here
laid back does not automatically equal zero discipline, it can just be picking your battles and being an effective parent
im laid back with my kids, they are now young teens who have never once been in trouble at school, are kind and respectful to everyone as we have mutual respect not dictatorship. Now I know there is a vast land of inbetween but you get the gist

Unfair to call DH a dick.

Clearly he's the only parent attempting to instil manners and polite behaviour, and the OP's laid back attitude probably only serves to undermine and devalue his authority.

Yes holidays are meant to be different and boundaries can be relaxed slightly (staying up later etc) but sounds like OP DC have zero boundaries or structure which is a recipe for a stressfull holiday.

When OP says she's laid back I picture tablets at every meal time and kids screeching at the top of their lungs, pestering others, whilst OP lays back on the sun lounger working on her tan.

Toddlers / preschoolers on holiday, out of routine, parents having possibly unrealistic expectations of how things will go! Is it early in your holiday, OP? Often found night one or two the toughest as everyone is adjusting to tiredness / heat / out of routine. It might get better!

At first we thought hotels would be the best option with small kids but honestly apartments / apart hotels have been the best as on days where we recognise toddler is overstimulated we can eat in or have a break in a calm environment. Takeaway pizza on the beach instead of a sit down meal every night. Often find eating out for lunch a lot easier than evenings, especially as sometimes he will crash in pram so we can have a relaxing drink!

My son will sit nicely when eating, it’s the waiting around that’s tricky. Toys but also recognising it’s a long time to sit and taking turns having a walk around with him helps, even just a trip to the loo to wash hands ready for dinner. I lived in Europe and yes a lot of families take their kids out and they behave BUT a lot of the time families go out on mass so there are plenty of laps for the wrigglier kids to sit on / grandad / uncle / cousin is there to play games and help keep them entertained. They’ve also almost definitely had a nap and a normal day of routine, not a full day of running around, getting over heated and over excited.

I agree, OP. Complaining that your children want you, of course they want you, they are small children and seek comfort in their mum. What on earth is wrong with that?!

Anyone who doesn’t know children differ vastly in childcare settings to home really knows next to nothing about children.

They most likely want OP because she is 'laid back' and let's them away with murder.

You can't explain away

"generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times"

as just normal small child behaviour. Plenty of children that age are capable of listening and doing as their told. That sounds like the extreme end of lazy parenting where kids get tablets, tv etc whenever they like and are allowed too much freedom.

OP even said he keeps hurrying them up in a way which suggests they were trying to get ready to go out for dinner. This wording didn't suggest OP wasn't trying to ready one of the DC whilst DH readied the other. More it sounds like DH was trying to hurry the pair of them up whilst OP was just chilling out.

My daughter did not take naturally to sitting at the table & found it harder than her brother, but we simply had rules that we stuck to:

• no food anywhere except the table, so if you want to eat you need to sit at table
• limit snacks. A lot kids these days are bored at the table because they graze on snacks constantly and never get properly hungry for the meal
• engage with them. You can't expect kids to sit quietly while adults ignore them to chat amongst themselves
• avoid very lengthy meals out with very young kids. They learn to associate the table as a place where they will be forced to sit for hours bored and will play up at any suggestion of a sit down meal