DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

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Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

You have low expectations of behaviour and sound like you don’t enforce consequences properly. That’s probably why they are better behaved elsewhere. Your DHis being totally out of order swearing at them.
You need to find out a joint parenting strategy and you also need to accept that holidays with little kids are going to be different for a few years. Why are you eating late? We always had a very consistent routine for ours- even when on holiday. It was a bit of a drag for a few years but it doesn’t last long. By the time they are 8 or 9 they’ll be able to stay up late and occupy themselves a lot of the time.

It does sounds like he’s made this all your problem. It’s easier to blame you than it is for him to realise that he also doesn’t have control. Shouting at them will not help. Or guilt tripping them.

Where adults put in place boundaries. So the kids are very much capable of it…

My kids also sat at a table at that age (reluctantly) with colouring and a toy but for hours, in the heat and an unfamiliar place, they would struggle massively and I'd have 30 mins max while eating food. I knew my children though and they never ran around wild but no amount of parenting or being firm would make them enjoy sitting still for hours.

My children have SEN and do struggle sitting still but I don't think I've met a 2 year old who will sit still for hours at a meal. I'm not saying you are lying but it's very unusual.

Her children don't behave in public. That is a major disadvantage for them. OP needs to parent her DC.

I’m not trying to be disingenuous here, and I do think he’s being an arse, but I look after 4 two year olds and they all sit at the table and eat their food nicely.
At age 3/4 they absolutely should sit at the table to eat (and behave!)

If you are caring appropriately for very small children and making sure they eat drink, rest and receive mental engagement and activity at appropriate times, there is no 'behaviour' to 'manage' and no 'consequences'

So many people make an absolute meal out of parenting. It is hard physical work, incredibly boring, but it's not complicated.

I don't think its so unusual for kids to be able to. It's just that parents actually bothering to parent their kids is getting more unusual.

All four of mine did, including the youngest with special needs. She needs a break outside between courses though.

@Avie29 , I have never screamed NO NO NO NO if someone takes something away from me but my children certainly do / have 😂 Parenting really isn’t just about modelling the behaviour you want and getting your children to follow the example you set.

To be honest I don’t think anyone with just one, young child can really comment on the dynamics of two slightly older children so close in age. I’m not intending that to sound patronising or condescending in any way, although I’m conscious that it does, but three can be an extremely challenging age at the best of times and with a four year old to encourage (and while I found four infinitely better than three personally not everyone does and being on holiday shakes everything up anyway.)

Sometimes parenting really is like one of those quizzes in magazines where there’s a clear ‘right’ answer.

Your child is refusing to sit down in a restaurant on holiday. They are running around annoying other customers and you and your partner are starting to become stressed and worked up. Do you

a) March your child out of the restaurant. They won’t have dinner and neither will you but at least you’ve made it clear it was unacceptable

b) Laugh and ignore them, after all they are on holiday!

c) Try to stay calm, consider engaging them with a video on your phone as a one off to stop them running around and then speak to them the next day reminding them of the need to be considerate

Common sense may prevail one day!

In most cases, children that age can stand and would benefit from more structure/discipline than yours appear to currently be given. But even under the best of circumstances, there will still be issues and they will still misbehave at times; discipline isn't an exact science and children are human and mercurial.

What really jumps out here, though: unless there's surprise backstory that these are your children from a prior relationship and DH is new on the scene and holding back on the parenting out of respect of the kids' bio-dad, why is he huffing and puffing and making everyone's holiday miserable? If the children lack discipline, whose fault is that and why isn't he taking any responsibility?

I agree there needs to be a middle ground. If kids can't behave in a restaurant to a reasonable standard and not disturb other folk they need to eat at home till they can.

Of course there are. Children don’t automatically always do as they are told. What’s wrong with a consequence? As a parent you model good behaviour and guide your kids.

(both are fine at school and nursery.)

Why are they both fine there? Because they have boundaries and if they step out of line, discipline is given until they learn.

You both need to find what works for each child. Something will, "they don't listen to anything/ no consequences work" is a cop out by lazy parents.

What, in the thousands and thousands of options parents have had over the years NOTHING works for your precious darlings?

You both need to work as a team in sorting their behaviour out, if you dont now, they will carry on running rings around you both and your relationship will not recover as you both play the "blame game"

They are 3 and 4!!! DH needs to lower his expectations and stop being a dick.

But honestly holidaying with kids at these ages was never going to be easy was it.

@ADAB33 it is worth remembering that it’s only really in the last twenty years that smacking has been so heavily frowned upon.

I don’t like physical punishment, at all, and I certainly don’t use it myself or want anyone else to. But I do think we have to accept that without it sometimes … nothing will work. That doesn’t mean letting children run amok as such but there is a degree of acceptance with the removal of that sanction.

The only parents I've experienced with 'consequences ' are those that carry ipads around and constantly threaten to remove the ipad, most often don't remove the ipad and make life miserable for everyone around them.

Parents that are not constantly threatening their children with 'consequences' are engaging with them and meeting their needs, leading to well regulated, 'well behaved' children.

He sounds like an extra child. Slamming cutlery down saying ‘you’re making daddy sad’. Good grief. How old is he emotionally ?
I would suggest behaviour like that is why they play up a bit. If the parents aren’t eating nicely and talking nicely why would they ?
Children do need to be told ‘no’. But not in a temper.

Nothing will work apart from a smack? NOTHING? Utter rubbish.

Nurseries dont smack, yet you dont see children running amok there, they sit at lunchtimes and put things away etc. Why? Because boundaries/discipline are in place and the kids know not to push their luck.

That word "discipline" seems to get some people's backs up. I never know why as it means to train and instruct. Not physical beating.

I rarely smacked my eldest (in their 30s now) and never smacked my youngest (now in their 20s) as I bothered to find out what worked for each kid. It took time, but I bet the OP has the "gentle voice" that pleads with her kids to behave, rather than the "louder and strict when needed" voice that us older parents know means business.

This post made me despair. Really, showing a toddler a video on a phone is the only positive solution you can imagine?

Two DC with SEN and they knew perfectly well to sit through meals. If they misbehaved I took them out and calmed them down, but TBH they didn't, because we ate together every day (like I imagine, they do in nursery) and so they knew what the expectations were.

OP you haven't said where are you roughly? What exactly is being expected of the children all day? What sort of things are you doing? What sort of places are you eating at?

He's being ridiculous but the kids also need to behave. Even at 3 and 4 they should be sitting at the table eating dinner and not needing to go on devices or getting down every 2 minutes. I have relatives who parent by iPad and their kids are hideously annoying if we go out for a pub lunch or whatever. Mine had to behave at the table and as a consequence are lovely lunch/dinner companions now!

Your husband needs to stop whining and step up and do some actual parenting.

I think there are different kinds of consequences though. I never used tech with mine ever. But saying please don’t hit your brother with the book or I will have to take it off you is a consequence. It’s not about big drastic things- and definitely not about physical chastisement, shouting or embarrassing them.

I found if I wanted to eat out with a 3 and 4 year old, it needed to be before 7 pm. With the heat and holiday activities, they were exhausted and needed to be in bed by 8.

Your husband seems unreasonable to expect them to behave like adults. He seems to be showing them the way with temper tantrums and strops.

I had 3 kids under 4.
We eat out very regularly, holiday abroad once a year. We always eat at the table every evening, no electronics allowed.
When eating out they're pretty much always been well behaved. We kept them busy, either in conversation or bough small toys/colouring with.
If you're very laid back, does that mean that you let them run around the restaurant/shouting etc? My kids knew that was a hard no from the start and I am by no means a strict parent.
BUT why is your husband cross with you? It's his kids too and his job to parent as much as yours. He's acting like a child and his behaviour to you and the kids is unacceptable.

@followtheswallow i have 5 kids i was using my 2yo as an example as a PP had said you cannot expect a 3yo to sit at the table and eat nicely.
My kids are 15,14, twins 11 and 2 year old, 2 are SEND, maybe i am just extremely lucky but i have never had any of my children play up when out for a meal, they will do colouring, play toys while waiting for meal, eat and then go back to colouring/playing while waiting for others to finish, obviously at home it is different, i dont expect them to sit at the table while im cooking or stay at the table when they are finished, i have even had compliments from other customers about how well behaved my children are and i believe it is because from early age this is what they have always done its normal for them.