to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

oh well thats fine then they obviously deserve to be hit , because they were probably not very nice anyway 🙄

@EmeraldShamrock000 there is so much lack of understanding on this thread.

My mother did not reach the level of disinhibition you describe at your DD's work (she died of physical causes) - but she regressed to a childlike state in so many ways. It was very difficult to watch a person who'd been a working creative artist and inspirational teacher of artists to be happy watching children's television. And how much more utterly like a nightmare is it for the person suffering from dementia herself? If they knew ...

Not really no. Most people with dementia don’t lose ALL memories. They’ll often likely “remember” being sexually attracted to women. It’s like a long term core instinct rather than memory. I imagine gay people would be more likely to do this to people of the same sex.

It’s like a person may go and grab someone elses food. But not necessarily start eating dirt. They remember food. They know what it is and that they want to eat it. But not that they shouldn’t eat someone else’s chocolate!

Hitting them repeatedly will not stop them stealing the chocolate. They don’t understand why they can’t have the chocolate and they like it. They cannot LEARN not to steal it. They sadly have already unlearned this.

Its a common trait of Dementia paticularly frontal lobe Dementia that both Men and Women can become sexually disinhibted.

Of course she is not suggesting you don't visit but cant you not see your granddad in his room / garden , position the chair away from others
ask the carers for suggestions / help with this

Female staff are subject to unwanted touching.

See the weeing thing I can understand. That’s reverting back to a certain time and place and habit. Same with not recognising family members /others and confusing them with a date/wife , talking to them in that manner, propositioning them, being overfamiliar etc. That’s again reverting to a certain time and place and habit.

What is grabbing boobs/bums/crotches reverting to?

The part of their brains that controls sexual inhibitions is damaged. What part of that don’t you understand?

Another one with no knowledge or understanding of dementia.

People with dementia have profound brain damage. It’s not about being a bit forgetful or somehow casting off social norms to reveal their “true self”. Dementia means they are no longer the person they used to be.

My DF has advanced Alzheimer’s. 4 years ago, when he could still speak he asked me what the thing was that he could see at the end of his bed. It was his own foot! Now, bedridden and without speech he bites his own hand repeatedly and will bite the hand of anyone who isn’t being careful when they try to stop him.

Other residents spit, throw things, scream constantly and take their clothes off in public. Most are extremely confused, agitated and distressed. They cannot understand what is happening or what they are doing.

My aunt with dementia is capable of stating, in the same sentence, that she knows her husband is dead but that he phones her.

People with dementia are extremely ill, and need care and compassion.

Anyone who visits a nursing home should be aware that they are in a private space in which vulnerable, ill people live. It is up to the visitor, who has capacity and choice, to avoid situations like that described by the OP. And if anyone is not capable of understanding and respecting nursing homes residents then they should not be there.

Dementia isn’t about “reverting” to anything. It’s about having parts of your brain destroyed.

I remember my mum in the early part of dementia describing her memory as being “like a colander, full of holes”. She had no idea how prescient she was. The holes just keep getting bigger and bigger.

It is up to the visitor, who has capacity and choice, to avoid situations like that described by the OP. And if anyone is not capable of understanding and respecting nursing homes residents then they should not be there.

100% this. There is some nasty ageism and ableism on this thread.

I hope that the future for some posters is better than that of the people they're castigating and despising.

Funny how he grabbed your private areas & smiled while doing it, no? Not a hug or a tap on the back or shoulders. He has some level of understanding and you were entirely reasonable to do what you did. You weren't violent - you were warning him and weren't excessive. Id raise a complaint with management about the staff member's " ooh he can't help it". You deserve safeguarding too.

These thread is deeply troubling in that it reveals such a lack of knowledge of dementia and how it affects people. Which is understandable as it’s often portrayed simply as loss of memory and terms like “memory clinic” and “memory nurse” don’t help. Maybe there needs to be an awareness raising campaign which is brutally honest about the reality.

You deserve safeguarding too.

She could safeguard herself by staying out of the way of male residents.

Someone with dementia can’t help it. The staff member is correct.

Found these articles:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/01/sexual-misconduct-harassment-elderly-caregivers

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/08/08/nx-s1-5066969/dementia-violence-violent-patient-nursing-homes

Verbal, physical, and sexual aggression among dementia patients in long-term care facilities are alarmingly common.

Have you reported this home, OP, for its lack of safeguarding of both visitors and residents?

We know. What do you think those articles are telling us that we didn’t know before? Some of us here have forgotten more about dementia than you’ll never know.

Having been approached and touched by residents with dementia on 4 occasions what action have you taken to avoid it happening again?

I am supposed to know in advance who might assault and stay out of the way 🙄

I have reported it to the staff everytime. The staff have seen me smack them when I have been assaulted. Most have been apologetic but the last time the member of staff just said he can't help it and walked away. I have escalated this further. People bring grandchildren to the care home. I am thinking they shouldn't anymore due to the risk of them also being assaulted.

Bollocks. The situations is totally different. YOU have full agency: you can talk - say “no don’t touch me, i don’t like it and you must take your hand away now”. You can walk away, to the manager, out of the space. You can use your hands to hold the offending arm and lift it away, to raise it in the air and say “stop that now” …
or to do whatever it is you have described as “hitting” and “smacking”.

Would you say a baby who grabbed their siblings hair and pulled it while smiling and laughing understands what they are doing? They must be a horrible baby then right as they clearly have some level of understanding that they are hurting their sibling?

Any grandchildren will be kept well away from any residents apart from their grandparent. Don’t try to excuse your behaviour with faux concern about other people’s children.

Did you see that I have been assaulted in the past? I have PTSD and smacking back is a reflex to unwanted touching.

So bollocks to your saying “no don’t touch me, i don’t like it and you must take your hand away now".