to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

Is anyone else watching BBC 1 right now?

You may not have a duty of care, but if you hit out at a resident in response to behaviour they have no capacity to control, and are observed doing it, then you’re likely to face charges of assault. And rightly so. These homes are the safe spaces for vulnerable people. They’re entitled to be treated with dignity and understanding.

She wasn’t staff or a resident. As she said, she just turned up at visiting time.

Link me to a case where a woman had her breast or crotch grabbed by any man at all and swatted his hand away and was charged with assault for her perfectly normal reaction, please do.

What shouldn’t be ‘normalised’ ? Of course no one is normalising it - just pointing out that these are behaviours over which dementia sufferers in the main have no control. And in OP’s case it appears this has happened to her four times. At what point do you take responsibility for protecting yourself, rather than opting for assaulting vulnerable people in response to actions they can’t control ?

Women do not have to understand people touching them sexually. It is never something that other people can handwave away.

I'm sorry but if a man (in a care home) gropes you, its fine to bat their hand away. Its not okay to kick them in the face, but batting their hand away is acceptable.

If you suspect that the man is fully functioning, it is ofc fine to karate kick them in the face xx

Dignity and understanding isn't compatible with allowing vulnerable people to grope unsuspecting members of the public. If things run that badly at a home I'd wonder if the staff member would even be bothered to report anything to the police.

It is 100% unacceptable for anyone to’smack’ a resident! I personally question whether the OP is for real! Have never heard victim blamer so over used on a thread!
I also question why the OP has not addressed any of the advice given
ie visit in relatives room , keep their distance,as anyone who has a brain cell would do .
I personally have never been‘sexually assaulted’ by a patient after many years as a nurse ,including working in very tricky areas ie AE ,acute medical wards and care homes …

Agree.

This. Fuck me.

You're allowed to react to being assaulted.
You didnt do anything wrong.

Sadly I was in a retail centre lift recently with a teenage boy who was with a bloke I'm sure was his father based on age & strong family resemblance. The boy was wearing ear defenders & a sunflower lanyard, and was visibly fondling himself/masturbating while staring at me.

I was horrified that his father made no attempt to:

• distract/diverted him
• tell him to stop
• physically stop or safely restrain him
• apologise to me

Having worked in a senior role in a care home I can cite a couple of occasions in quick succession, in which visitors were observed in this kind of behaviour - some quite forceful - and the police were called in response. No charges ensued because the visitors apologised and were escorted off the premises. It’s assault. Tantamount to punishing a baby for something they have no control over. The appropriate response is to move the hand away and report the incident to staff. In our case, it triggered an immediate review and tightening of procedures. There is absolutely no excuse for physically abusing someone who lacks the capacity to understand what they have done wrong, or why they are being ‘punished’. There is zero common sense applied on this thread, just a proclivity towards the belief that all men are abusers, and a refusal to accept that dementia can have exactly the same effects on female sufferers. Sex isn’t a factor. Area of the brain affected is.

Men with dementia have no idea what they’re doing. They behave in ways they’d never have contemplated before this vile disease struck them.

No charges ensued. You said it. It’s not assault, what op described is a natural reaction to being assaulted.

But yes obviously women should just be totally passive at all times, even when being groped.

Honestly women don't need to accept being groped by a man with dementia who is aware enough to grab your boob

Not In my experience. This happened twice during my tenure, in quick succession and was dealt with appropriately - procedures were reviewed and tightened, along with the perpetrators of what posters here seem reluctant to accept as assault being escorted off the premises initially and followed up with different visiting arrangements. It’s not rocket science. If you’re going into a safe space for very vulnerable people you know to be suffering from dementia, then it’s up to you to report any safeguarding issues, not doubling down, as OP has, on the intent to keep on assaulting residents until she’s caught. It’s batshit.

You cannot go into a care home knowing that you will smack/hit one of the residents if they behave in certain ways.

He’s not aware or he wouldn’t do it. You have no experience whatsoever of dementia, do you?

Inhibitions or self regulation often disappear with dementia as Im sure you know. Staff should not be "reprimanding" you but should say to resident its not acceptable even though the man cant help it and be more watchful over those in their care. If they know its an issue they should be taking appropriate steps to prevent it.

But the point here is that there is likely no awareness. Women are just as likely to do the same thing because it’s not down to sex, it’s down to the area of the brain that’s being destroyed by the disease. Disinhibition of this kind is one of the most pronounced and common effects of dementia - only on MN have I ever seen it linked with the notion that if it’s a man he must be a perv.

I'm not claiming to

But we don't have to just accept a boob grab, sorry

My late OH behaved in this way in the months before he died. I would have been sad to think someone might have smacked him, but I can understand a reflex action.
I was able to remember who he truly was which I do understand is not possible for others.