to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

It shouldn't be normalised and there should be appropriate risk management strategies in place. It's certainly not a good reason to expect members of the public to see being groped unexpectedly by a stranger as ok and know exactly how to respond. That's laughable.

Back in the late 90s we were visiting my DHs aunt who had been hospitalized due to MS. A male nurse went in to help the elderly woman in the next bed. "oh im so pleased you are back I will take my nightie off"
She thought the nurse was her husband coming back from the Second World War. it was so sad

So what do you suggest?

And actually, what are “members of the public” doing in a nursing home?

Big, big lack of understanding about dementia here. One of the effects can be a complete loss of inhibition and inappropriate sexual behaviour. Would you hit a small child for touching you in places where you don't want to be touched?

You don't have to stand there and take it. Move away. It's fine to say very clearly, 'Don't do that.' But they genuinely are not aware in any way that counts of what they are doing that's wrong.

Even if it was acceptable to hit severely ill people, it wouldn't act as a deterrent as they don't remember - though they can get distressed.

A care plan that includes protecting them from difficult situations with a member of the public. Not just assuming that the member of the public will #bekind and understanding of their condition.

I get that it's inevitable that you start to normalise the crappy parts of a job when it's commonplace. You have to remember that these things won't be normal to someone that's not in the same job.

Needs to be said though it does make a change to see a thread on MN that isnt slagging off older generations.

Read the first line. Give me an instance of a “member of the public” randomly visiting a care home?

Well said. Some unbelievable responses on this thread but not that surprising when I see some of the names. The polling is clear though. It’s up to the care home to deter their male residents from sexually assaulting visiting women, in the same way that they can’t be allowed to go around punching any toddlers who come to visit granddad.

What about the women residents who sexually assault men?

The staff witnessed it. They should have reported it

To whom?

Men know what they're doing

As I said, the care home needs to be aware that might happen, if it’s happened in the past, and take every step to stop it happening. What about the toddlers being punched?

Do women not know what they are doing?

When I visited my family at their care home I was just allowed to turn up. I wasn't given any dementia training or warnings on how to respond to the patients not any sort of screening. Visitors are members of the public.

They will be well aware. Who would take a toddler to a care home where they might be “punched”?

I dont know, the op didnt ask about a woman feeling her up

Its fine to bat the hand of a man away if hes trying to feel you up imo, including if he has dementia

Completely overlooking the fact that if these instances are not reported then the home is not aware of them. OP says she has experienced this four times. Why has she resorted to physical responses instead of removing the perpetrators’ hand and immediately reporting it to the home ?

It absolutely is up to the care home to deter their residents from this kind of behaviour (and not just the male ones, because dementia pre-disposes female sufferers to the same type of disinhibition - something completely ignored on this thread ) I agree. That’s not up for debate. What is unacceptable is OP’s doubling down on her expressed intention to carry on assaulting anyone who lays a hand on her, regardless of their capacity to understand what they are doing. That’s criminal assault.

Lots of people take toddlers to care homes in my experience. Do you think they shouldn’t?

So you weren’t a member of the public? You were family.

Why?

I was related to one person in the care home, I was a complete stranger to everyone else. I was a member of the public. I wasn't employed by the home. I wasn't a DBS checked volunteer. I had no duty of care to anyone in that home.

And presumably you think the same of female dementia sufferers engaging in the same behaviours ? Because it isn’t down to ‘knowing what they’re doing’ or any past proclivities. It’s purely down to which areas of the brain are affected by the disease, and how that affects behaviour. Disinhibition resulting in body exposure, inappropriate behaviour or groping, is just as likely to occur in female sufferers as male. Doesn’t make them any more of a perv than their male counterparts. The ignorance of how dementia affects the sufferer and the relationship between the type of dementia, areas of brain affectation and subsequent behaviours, and the tendency to blame men just because they’re men, as you’re doing here is actually shocking.

As pp have said, women visitors aren’t signing up to be sexually assaulted, them batting a wandering hand out of the way is a natural reaction. I agree these incidents should be reported and logged and staff should take action.