to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I agree. She didn't attack him or hurt him or punish him. She swatted his hand away. I wonder how these people would react if it was their young daughters that this man was groping? Still acceptable? You all have children. What would you say to them about the man feeling their crotch while they tried to visit with grandma?

At what point IS it acceptable to assertively remove them from your person?

No-one has said that anywhere. You posted and made it clear what your response would be, and that’s what people are reacting to. You’ve also doubled down by posting that you don’t intend to change your behaviour. Why is that ?

There’s a difference between assertively removing a hand and slapping someone.

OP can't seem to "reframe" it because she says she has no control over her actions, and her reaction is to "smack" the disabled resident. Therefore, it is not safe for her to attend unless changes are made to make it safe (for her and them). But she doesn't want to discuss any changes she just wants people to tell her it's fine to continue to lash out at disabled people

I wouldn’t take a child anywhere near a care home if the visit involved other residents. It would be straight to grandma’s room and straight out again after the visit. Which is what OP could do.

I was visiting a relative in Severalls back in the early 90s when someone suddenly grabbed my wrist He came from behind I just didnt see him till his hand was around my wrist. DH who was DP then gently swatted his wrist. And he let go I was focusing on the relative i was visiting. I was 20 at the time and "oh gosh i must look out for being grabbed" didnt enter my head.

Anyone going to a care home should expect to be assaulted according the victim blamers.

People are minimising assault by calling it handsy. Is someone grabbing your crotch handsy?

I don't know which thread you're reading, but there is no suggestion this was a one off or that OP "swatted his hand away". She's clearly described what she's done, multiple times, and will continue to do.

No. She told us she had the condition. You assumed the severity was enough to qualify as a disability.

Indeed it was certainly @Balloonhearts who introduced PTSD being a disability.

If the care home is aware of the patients behaviour then they already have a duty to take steps to prevent their female staff from sexual harassment in the workplace, dementia or no dementia. Those staff absolutely do not need to desensitise themselves to it.

That can include double supervision, male carers, deescalation and moving the patient away. They absolutely should be making sure he is not able to approach female visitors close enough to touch them.

Every sexual assault is meant to be reported and recorded

The fact they knew and he got close enough to OP shows a failing by them.

Not expect it no, but be prepared for it, given that you know the nature of the residents. And you should definitely have taken action to avoid further unwanted contact having experienced it four times and done nothing more than assault the residents in response. And once again, no-one is victim blaming - merely supporting the vulnerable residents whose safe space you have invaded several times to assault them.

How is it a failing on the part of the care home if OP has chosen to take the law into her own hands on four occasions instead of reporting the incidents to the appropriate authorities ?

It’s a bit of a case of they COULD be but equally MIGHT not be

they should be risk assessed for when people visit tho and how they conduct themselves especially if children visit relatives. I’d be escalating this.

Agree keep a distance

They are risk assessed and a care plan put in place for each resident - including safeguarding measures where appropriate. I agree OP should escalate it, but I think she should have done that a while ago given that this has happened on four separate occasions, resulting in four vulnerable residents being assaulted. OP is concentrating on the fact that she has been assaulted and failing to recognise that she is assaulting in retaliation.

There's only a certain amount of time you can devote to arguing with stupid, I'd stop bothering if I were you. It's dinner time. If you haven't quite had your fill of idiots chatting hysterical bollocks, I recommend bbc1. 🍷

Its pretty bloody clear from the first sentence of her first post that they regularly grope WOMEN.

If the staff havent noticed this much less experienced it themselves then that in itself is one hell of a failing given they are supposed to be monitoring the progression of his condition and behaviour as part of his care plan 🙄

It doesn’t matter where you are grabbed, if the person doing the grabbing lacks the capacity to understand what they are doing or the consequences of their actions then it’s not assault. That’s why we don’t prosecute babies, children or those suffering from learning disabilities or severe mental illness. I’m baffled as to why you are so reluctant to accept that. You’ve experienced this four times and still you haven’t taken any action other than slapping at vulnerable people and expressing the intention to keep on doing that. Why you think that’s reasonable is beyond me.

The care home has a duty of care towards these residents which includes not letting them get into volatile situations with strangers.

This^
The care home should be managing the residents who are sexually assaulting other residents, staff and visitors. Also the resident displaying inappropriate sexual behaviour should be assessed by a medical professional to insure they aren’t suffering from an infection (can affect behaviour) or are having unacceptable side effects from some typers of medication.
This is just on example https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8009557/

Nope. It’s up to OP to make the home aware of what’s going on. To experience the same thing four times and not take action beyond slapping away hands is unfathomable and irresponsible. And if staff haven’t experienced it for themselves, how is this a failing ?

What do you think my husband should have done when an unwell woman draped herself over him and grabbed his crotch? Hit her?

The victim blamers are saying I should be prepared to be assaulted in a care home.