to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I should be arrested and banned from the care home apparently as I am putting them at risk.

I should take personal responsibility.

It was a response to your equally irrelevant observation. You diagnosed her.

So any time a man grabs at you you must determine their mental capacity before reacting? If that was even possible, excuse me you seem to have your hand on my breast do you have any mental incapacity or should I remove your hand.

What do you want the solution to be?

No I didn't. She told us. Pay attention.

I go to the care home so I should know people there are disabled and could have dementia 🙄

So many victim blamers here.

If it's any comfort to you it happens the other way round as well. My very proper relative in her 90s, advanced dementia is very inappropriate with young men. She doesn't seem interested in old men.

You would be barred in the care home I worked in. The staff are there to protect their residents not you.

Weird of you to pretend not to understand the relevance of the fact OP has been told multiple times that these behaviours are due to dementia.

You could equally well be in a pub and someone with dementia or other mental disability grabs at you, where do you draw the line?

Yes OP. You are in fact expected to understand that people in a care home are disabled and could have dementia.

And states it clearly in her title thread.

Dementia most certainly does cause you to ‘grope’ and display other disinhibited behaviour, especially vascular and temporal lobe dementia. It’s not just confined to men either - affects women just as much. And no, as long as OP considers physical assault an appropriate reaction to being inappropriately touched by someone who hasn’t the capacity to understand their behaviour, she doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, because there is no doubt. The home is a safe space for vulnerable residents. There are other alternative before resorting to a physical response.

The more this thread goes on the more I’m getting the distinct impression of misandry. Women are just as likely to fall victim to these illnesses and with the same symptoms. I’m guessing the response would be a lot more measured than that afforded to men, because the assumption is because the illness has resulted in inappropriate touching they must be a perv, so deserve a slap. Typical MN lack of critical thinking and predictable knee jerk reactions.

Absolutely women working in those situations day in annd day out so swat away hands in the above circumstances, absolutely. I know it because I hear it from people who are working in and dealing with those very human issues.

But again the OP described one situation of doing this and she was questioning her being chastised by a member of staff after swatting a persons hand away.

This is an absolutely typical response that people do to unwanted sexualised behaviour.

Thank God I’m not going mad and yours in a seriously minority view.

Of course this is ok - they need to learn. They may not be capable of retaining the information but this is the best shot at it.

This. It's not even possible, it's a reflex action. If someone grabbed my crotch I don't think I'd even be able to tell you if it was a man or a woman until after I'd punched them in the throat. It's a complete reflex, you scream for help and you shove or slap them away.

Carers have to train themselves to suppress that instinct. It's not fair to expect someone who is taken by surprise not to lash out, never mind someone who has previously been raped!

I’ll tell you where you draw the line. In a pub there could be any reason for you being grabbed or inappropriately touched. You won’t be expecting it and you don’t necessarily think dementia or disability so there is some mitigation for slapping the hand away as an initial response. In a care home containing residents you are aware have dementia and lack the capacity to understand or control their actions, not so much. Especially if you have full capacity yourself and the ability to report inappropriate behaviour and secure alternative visiting arrangements. And even more so if you have experienced inappropriate touching at previous visits and haven’t bothered to address it properly.

And... then sexual assault is allowed? Just slapping a hand away is hardly assault, at what point is she allowed to object, before or after rape? If she is not allowed to prevent sexual assault. Will the staff just stand by and say well done for not objecting he does have dementia so doesn't know any better now.

This is disgusting. I hope you never experience what it's like for someone you love to develop dementia.

When a person has this sort of uninhibited behaviour they need an appropriate care plan. A care plan has to be realistic about how members of the public might react to the behaviour. You can't keep a vulnerable person safe without considering this and I think in this case the home should be either closely supervising these people around others or keeping them away from others.

So you agree with me (and not OP) that she should in fact expect people in the home to be disabled and potentially to have dementia? Good.

I've suggested about 7 alternatives above none of which are "just keep hitting disabled people"

YANBU

If something happens again and you are told off you will be stronger prepared to ask them what does their risk assessment say about how to protect female visitors from the things they cant help

"Swat hands away" is not what OP describes anyway, she repeatedly refers to "smacking" the disabled residents.

I don't actually believe, or perhaps don't want to believe, that you have a child with SEN and you'd be happy to send him into an establishment which repeatedly exposed him to someone (without any training btw just someone allowed in) who would smack him if he behaved in a way he can't control and doesn't understand. I hope that is not true.

People keep saying I am hitting disabled people like I just go upto them and hit them randomly.

I think reframing it as pushing away their hands from you with a very stern no don’t do that is a better idea, in reality it may be more of smack but it’s essential to express what you are doing too

It’s perfectly fair to expect someone to be prepared for this kind of experience if they are visiting a care home where there are residents who are known to have dementia or otherwise lack the capacity to understand or control their actions. OP has the capacity to understand that from previous experience of being inappropriately touched, so why hasn’t she reported officially to the care home and taken steps to protect herself.

And I was the main carer for my mum - 95 and with advanced vascular dementia, along with private carers. Not once have I ever had to suppress the impulse to punch her in the throat, and not once have I ever had cause to doubt the standard of care she received. PTSD due to previous assault is entirely understandable. The reluctance to protect yourself, preferring to assault vulnerable care home residents in their own safe space, is most definitely not.