to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I agree with you and I think that the member of staff excusing him because 'he can't help it' was in the wrong. It's an automatic reflex with most women to slap away an uninvited hand!

Thats OK then..

If the resident is suffering from hyper sexuality then the home should contact the GP or Older Persons Mental Health Services for a medication review. Some medications can cause hyper sexual and other types of uninhibited behaviour. Donepezil and Sinemet for example.
@haleeyask the home what they are doing to prevent you being sexually assaulted. This resident needs to be managed more closely eg 121 staffing or a medication review.

There should be a care plan in place for every resident, and if they are known to engage in inappropriate touching as a result of their illness, then it’s the home’s responsibility to build safeguarding into the care plan. ‘Toleration’ should not involve physical response to inappropriate touching. These care homes are supposed to be safe spaces for the residents. There should not be any scope for inappropriate touching, or for visitors/other residents to be able to respond with physical violence without recourse.

I visit my DF in his nursing home usually at least once a week and have done for the 3 and a half years he’s been there. My DSis, BIL, and other relatives are there weekly and my DM visits daily. I’m not aware of any visitors being groped or assaulted by a resident.

I know most of the other residents - definitely those who are mobile and I know how they behave. Sometimes their illness progresses suddenly and their behaviour changes. As I’ve already said, when I’m there I am always aware of the other residents - a very small minority of whom make me feel uncomfortable and I watch out for them coming and move away or ask a member of staff to guide them away. I do find it surprising that the OP has been subjected to physical and inappropriate touching, and that more than once.

OP, have you reported the nursing home? For you to have been subjected to physical touching and groping so often is a sign that it is exceptionally badly run.

This. It requires a proper response from the appropriate authorities, and one that does not put a vulnerable resident at risk of assault for an action they have no control over.

I honestly don’t get how you clearly are empathetic towards the man with dementia, as you should be, but you cannot show not even a modicum of empathy towards the OP.

She visits her grandfather regularly clearly she is a decent soul. She has to contend with this horrible behaviour in spite of having previously been assaulted and it has not put her off being a decent person. Yet you come down on her like she is the worst person. No nuance, no understanding of her situation, just attempts at shaming.

She's not being that decent though I'm afraid. Yes it's nice that she visits him but each time she does she exposes everyone in the care home to the risk of physical assault because she, by her own admission, has no control over her own reaction to foreseeable events.

If I volunteered to read books to kids at a nursery but my instinctive reaction to children, say, pulling at my hair was to slap them (due to my own trauma), and this had happened four times, would you still think I was lovely to volunteer at the nursery? Or would you perhaps think it wasn't safe for me to keep going there?

Within the confines of a care home where it’s known that there are vulnerable residents who may not have the capacity to understand their actions, this kind of ‘automatic’ response is unacceptable. It’s a violation of their safe space. No capacity to understand the consequences of your actions also means no capacity to understand why you are being physically punished. All it does is add to the misery and confusion of the condition. How is an automatic response to lash out as a result of being touched inappropriately seen as OK, when the person doing the touching is similarly unable to control their actions ?

It sounds like the people who work in this home have started to normalise the touching to point that they expect the visitors to see it as normal. The care plans should take into account that other people may not be able to tolerate the groping without having to swat the hands away.

This. Can I just point out as well that PTSD is also a disability and OP would also be classed as vulnerable because of it. Who is going to come to more harm here? The old man getting his hand smacked away or the traumatised sexual assault survivor being repeatedly sexually molested? The only person having their space violated here is the OP.

🙄

It’s only classified as a disability if it prevents someone from carrying out a normal life. It has to be very severe for this to be the case.

People are calling it assualt here and saying I should be reported to the police and banned from the care home!

Honestly those two are not comparable are the kids full sized and sexually assaulting you. My child has ASD and again when those kids behave in harmful ways physical restraint is taught, required and used. There are situations where women are allowed to defend themselves physically and sexual assault is one of them.

Would you like to post the qualifications you have to determine whether OPs ptsd is severe or sufficiently affecting her life to be classed as a disability? I assume you must be a psychiatrist specialised in sexual trauma?

I’m not unsympathetic to OP being inappropriately touched, what I’m unsympathetic to is her response to that. It’s lovely that she visits her grandfather regularly, but she’s in the environment of a care home containing elderly and vulnerable residents who have dementia and no control or understanding of their own actions. Despite this, she seems to think that instead of taking steps to protect herself, report the matter to the home and ask for a private space for her visits, it’s fine to ‘slap’ vulnerable residents, despite it being pointed out to her that she’s actively causing harm by physical punishment of those who have no concept of what they have done wrong or why they are being slapped.

And that’s not all. She’s been given several alternative and more reasonable courses of action, but continues to double down on her intention to meet wandering hands with physical assault. So I’m sorry but the only thing I personally can take away from this is that she posted expecting a very different response than the one she got and never had any intention of following the more tempered advice she’s had from posters here.

I didn’t mention OP. I pointed out that PTSD is not normally classified as a disability.

Ok say it's a class of 14 yr olds (taller and bigger than me) with severe cognitive disabilities (ie will never live independently, no understanding of risk, no understanding of social norms).
I'm volunteering to read to them. Once of the children grabs my boob and I slap them.
This happens the next week and I slap them again. Four times.
Am I still a lovely person to keep going back and reading to and slapping the disabled children?
Would you be happy to send your child to a school which let me volunteer?

Also I'd be astounded if the "physical restraint" being taught to your son's caregivers includes slapping them - does it?

It is assault. And yes you should be reported to the police and banned from the care home. And the sooner the better if you can’t summon up the personal responsibility to take yourself out of the situation rather than doubling down and assaulting vulnerable residents.

Would not any woman in reflex action slap away a hand on their bum, breast or crotch, there might also be an involuntary scream. Just because you are in a care home it doesn't mean you can stop these basic responses. The men may not be able to help it but neither can women visitors.

Absolutely everything that @ThreadGuardDog has said but I couldn’t be arsed to write it ! I don’t think OP has a clue about dementia and dealing with vulnerable adults apart from smacking them ! She clearly doesn’t want a solution and wants people to condone her actions.

100% agree. Also I'm astounded by OP's inability to vocalise what she actually wants to happen here. What does she want the solution to be? Literally just for everyone to say yes - well done OP - keep on smacking elderly disabled people!!

If you are not referring to the op specifically then your comment is completely irrelevant. Her ptsd does significantly affect her, as she is badly triggered by being sexually assaulted.

There is also no evidence that this man does not know exactly what he is doing. Dementia does not normally cause you to grope people. Only in some cases. If he deserves the benefit of the doubt, so does she.

The poster didn’t mention OP. She merely pointed out the caveat that PTSD, as with all other definitions of disability under the Equality Act 2010, has to meet prescribed conditions. The poster doesn’t know that this isn’t the case, any more than you know it is.