to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

What a daft response. The residents are allowed to wander round if mobile. Presumably they are coming over to OP rather than her putting herself in a position for them to touch her. Nice bit of victim blaming there though.

You mean when assaulted a vulnerable person.

As someone who has ptsd from sexual assault, I would have done the same. You can't help it, your adrenaline shoots up and you have to get them off you. They'd be on the floor before I even knew I'd moved.

Of course your reflex is to lash out. It's pure survival instinct.

Yes this thread is full of victim blamers.

Apparently it is the same as taking responsibility as crossing the road 🙄

And dementia isn't a free license to sexually assault women consequence free.

Actually in law it means just that. We don’t prosecute those who have no mental capacity to understand what they’re doing is wrong. We do, however, prosecute people who knowingly use physical force against them.

And while I sympathise with the trauma you’ve clearly been through with your own father, it’s entirely unreasonable to assume that because the effects of dementia in other men result in inappropriate touching, that means that they are, or have ever been a paedophile or any other type of sex offender.

If OP is aware of her own reflex and can’t control it, then she should have some understanding of vulnerable people who lack the capacity to either control or understand their own. Hitting out is not acceptable in any situation - she has no business putting herself in circumstances where she could physically harm those people who are vulnerable and have no capacity to understand. The way some posters are pretzeling themselves to excuse OP’s behaviour is astounding.

The OP can move away from them, press an alarm bell, shout for help or go and find a member of staff.

Nursing home residents tend not to move very fast, it’s usually pretty easy to avoid close contact.

Apparently I should have compassion and lashing out is assaulting these men and the police should be called.

It's awful you have been assaulted before and have psychological issues.
But you are unfairly putting people in danger with your inability to control your reactions safely.
If you had a psychiatric injury which made you lash out at animals or children or whatever, this would be awful but you'd still be advised, for your safety and that of others, to stay away from situations where you might hurt others.

I'll repeat what a PP asked. What do you want the solution to this situation to be?

As you have been groped a few times then you are very aware that you are in an unsafe environment so I would expect you to be vigilant and be prepared to avoid similar situations. Visiting someone in a nursing home means being in a communal home occupied by people whose illness can mean they behave in inappropriate ways. Why do you keep going into that environment while taking no personal responsibility for your own safety?

OP seems to be wilfully ignoring the fact that what she’s experienced at the hands of vulnerable residents of a care home, cannot in any way be viewed as a sexual assault answerable in law if they have no capacity to understand their actions. She’s also ignoring the fact that her own response is a criminal offence. I’m not in any way trying to diminish that it must be awful to experience, especially if you’ve been the victim of assault in the past. But OP refuses to accept that she has capacity. She has options, including reporting the matter to the care home and requesting a private space for future visits. She seems to have no intention of doing this, preferring instead to put herself in the way of these assaults with the expressed intention reacting with physicality. The only thing I find more disturbing than this, is the OP’s determination to see herself as the victim, and the support of other posters in that view.

The police will be called if one of them hits you back and do you know what will happen then? Nothing because those people don’t have capacity and aren’t legally culpable. You, on the other hand ….

Such good advice to someone who has PTSD from sexual assault.

Odd that PTSD didn’t feature in the OP …

What advice do you want? What solution do you want?

Do you want us to just say yes OP your solution is perfect! Keep hitting the old disabled men!!

dementia isn't a free license to sexually assault women consequence free.

It is according to the victim blamers on this thread.

Exactly. This is a safe space for these vulnerable residents and OP appears incapable of understanding that, or respecting it. She can report what’s happened and request a private space for her visits. If OP has trauma because of previous sexual assault I would have thought that she would be more open to the idea of finding suitable alternatives to inviting trouble every time she visits.

Or the nursing home could make sure that all patients and visitors are safe from any kind of assault. Nobody should be subjected to any kind of assault while visiting a relative in a care home. It is the management's responsibility to ensure that visits can be made safely.
What about the other vulnerable people that reside in the home? Are they to just accept being touched by other residents?
Would you like your relative to live somewhere like that. Where they are at risk of being touched in sexual way?

Thank goodness 83% of people on the poll agree with me and the victim blamers are a small proportion!!

Or she could meet with the nursing home manager to ensure she can visit without coming into contact with other residents.

Or not visit at all if she cannot be sure that she won’t assault a resident.

OP says this has happened 4 times. That’s at least 3 more times than it should ever have happened.

Of course it isn’t ok for the op (or anyone) to have to experience unwanted touching.

But the idea that it is then ok for the OP to decide that just hitting out whenever it happens, every single time, is in any way an acceptable response, is just mind-boggling.

If OP is unable to control a reflex to hit anyone that touches her unexpectedly, then she is not safe to be unsupervised in a care home.

The OP needs to recognise this.

She needs to inform the home manager, and they need to come up with an appropriate plan that involves the OP never coming into contact with any of the other residents when she visits. She needs to have the plan in writing, and it needs to be stuck to whatever the level of staff turnover there might be.

Exactly. But the fact remains that these are vulnerable residents who have no capacity to understand their actions. If OP is at liberty to meet being touched inappropriately with a physical response then that’s unacceptable in itself.

Ah the old “they can’t help it”. Talk to anyone in care and they will tell you how a great many can help it and know exactly what they are doing.

The only other "solution" I can think of is for visitors to sign a disclaimer about the risk of being groped while visiting the home and an agreement for how they will tolerate that.

Yeah, to be honest I don’t have much respect for that result, given the pathetic excuses your supporters have given for your behaviour. It’s nothing to be proud of.

So you think just because they’re men, the fact that they have dementia and lack capacity is irrelevant ? Generally those with dementia tend to enter residential care in the later stages, when they are no longer able to function in essential areas of life. Do you really think it’s acceptable to label a man with dementia and lack of capacity as a perv, just because the disease manifests in inappropriate touching ? Would you think the same of a woman, because I can assure you as a result of personal experience, the effects of dementia on women can be the same.