to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

OP clearly does. It’s in the first post.

Plenty of options. None of which involve doubling down on "I'm going to keep hitting them noone will call the police"

• making a complaint to the care home
• reporting the carers who turn a blind eye to all kinds of things to the CQC or NMC
• insisting that she only sees her family member in his bedroom
• sitting further away from others
• going with someone else who can get between her and any residents
• advocating to have her gf removed from this awful home.

It really doesn’t matter. The fact that they are in a care home should be enough for anyone with a modicum of common sense to know there is a problem.

No. I am told they have dementia after they have assaulted me.

But apparently I am supposed to keep out of the way.

Not the same thing then is it ?

Yes nearly there, and what would A's cause of action be?

The onus is all on me:

I should know their medical history
I should stay away
I should be looking around in case someone assaults me
A reflex from PTSD is no excuse

I don’t think op was at all unreasonable to respond with force in the situation.
But it wouldn’t make any sense or be fair to anyone going forward to continue to go into an environment knowing what she now knows and respond similarly if it was to happen again.

Perhaps explain to the staff that you feel safer visiting gf in his room as you find it triggering as you cannot control your reaction and are scared you may injure a resident so its in everyone's interest not to have any contact with the other residents. What does your gf thinks could be a solution.

This is what i don’t understand, and I’m not victims blaming - genuinely curious….

ive spent a fair bit of time in dementia wards, firstly visiting my grandmother, secondly visiting my grandfather. I can’t say I was physically/sexually touched by any of the residents at any point. I would smile and say hi to everyone but wasn’t every really in touching distance to the others.
are you getting very close to them for multiple old men to do this to you on a frequent basis?

You claim that previous assault means you react instinctively. Yet you are refusing to acknowledge that the residents with dementia are also acting instinctively.

Bottom line is, that no matter what other experiences you have had, in your grandfather’s care home, you have mental capacity. You have foresight, you have agency. The residents with dementia do not.

You should be able to work out the difference.

I hope you never have to deal with watching a loved one slowly disappear, and even more, that you never experience it yourself. It is terrifying.

A push away of the hand is fine - of course. They can’t help it, obviously, but you don’t need to put up with it, obviously.

I’m surprised though - most homes keep ‘touchy’ men and women separately from visitors.

And dementia isn't a free license to sexually assault women consequence free. Sometimes its quick yes, but not always and you have no idea about how these MEN (not one single man), are impacted. My dad is one of the men youd be heart broken for, he has dementia and touches women. Poor him, cant help it. He was also a pedophile who sexually abused children. Maybe he'll try it with a little girl next and you can tell her off if she lashes out? They aren't all lovely, confused, harmless chaps FFS.

And no, saying she will do it again doesn't mean shes planning it, it can mean shes aware of her own reflex.

Yes.
If I found it triggering to be around crying children and to be touched by them/ have them climb on me or whatever, and kept visiting a nursery where the chance of a child screaming and crying at me was more than zero, and where my reaction would likely be physical, it would OF COURSE be on me not to enter that environment or only to do so if it could be made safe for everyone.

I don't know why OP is so incensed at the idea that she might have some personal responsibility on entering a health care facility where lots of severely disabled people live. "The onus is all on me" - well yes. You and the staff. And the staff sound fucking hopeless so yes it's on you. Welcome to adulthood.

Yes. You have mental capacity. The care home resident apparently does not. You have agency and can anticipate what you might need to do. These men are not rapists. You really need to do some work on yourself to start to see the difference.

No clue. I’m not a lawyer. I’m not intentionally rude and patronising either.

What do you want to happen?
Who is to blame here?
What solution would work for you?

I didn’t equate stealing a biscuit to sexual assault. I was referring to my DM’s response by hitting that resident and the action that was taken by staff in response to the hitting.

The OPs response was a reflex survival instinct as a result of PTSD that is not the same as your smacking someone for taking a biscuit. While it was appropriate for your mother to be spoken in the circumstances she was in, the OPs situation was significantly different. The staff member ignoring a deeply harmful behaviour like sexual assault (even though the resident is absolutely not responsible the sexual assault, it is still an assault) and instead of chastising the OP for her reflex the HCA should be recognising that some harmful behaviour will involve appropriate restraint which I would argue swatting away an assaulting hand is a form of restraint.

I pointed out earlier staff even physically restrain patients when they are behaving harmfully so this is not something that can never happen due to the nature of behaviour that can happen in these settings.

83% of people say I am not being unreasonable.

You should try doing some work on yourself.

Sorry I didnt clock the different user name and thought you were the initial poster who posted about settling the case (and therefore a lawyer)
No offence intended!

Good question
What do you actually want to happen here?

How do you cross the road, OP?

Do you just walk out from the pavement or do you stop and look at the cars and wait for a big enough gap in the traffic to give you time to cross?

Assuming you take the latter approach to road safety try adopting a similar level of personal responsibility when you are in the home of people who lack capacity.

This is exactly what I said to the nursing staff on the hospital ward my mother was on. They have no idea what the men's history is. Not all men with dementia are lovely old souls with brain damage.

Visitors to nursing homes should not be assaulting the residents. Especially repeatedly. A well managed nursing home should have taken action to ensure safety of both visitors AND residents. Have reacted instinctively once by hitting the OP needs to take the initiative to avoid a recurrence but she seems not to have done so or have intention of so doing.

I think we need to have realistic expectations of ordinary people when put in situations that they can't cope with. Someone who works with dementia patients should have training on this situation but it's not something that we can expect every single member of the public to be trained on. When shit happens untrained people are going to react badly and make mistakes.