AIBU to tell my son he made his sister feel unsafe and uncomfortable?

[Resini]

Hi all, last night for our anniversary DS and DD along with DS’s girlfriend took us out for dinner and to see a show. Afterwards DS and his girlfriend suggested we go for some more drinks, they are both members of a private members club and could take guests so suggested we go there.
DH and I don’t go out late very often and don’t enjoy drinking very much so we didn’t stay too long but DD did.
DD is only 21, she is quite young for her age, has only lived at home, where as DS is 28 and his girlfriend 25. Obviously DD can handle herself and doesn’t need her big brother looking after her but it wasn’t her normal environment either.
Today DD has told us, that both DS and his girlfriend got very drunk and both used cocaine. Now of course I’m not naive they are young adults (albeit professionals DS is a solicitor and his girlfriend works in policy research!) and I know these sort of things happen in professional circles in London.
DD ended up going back to DS’s girlfriends flat to stay the night as it got late, she missed the last train (we are out in Surrey) and didn’t want to try get a cab that far. DD told me she felt really uncomfortable as they also invited one of their friends back to stay at there’s and this friend has been flirting with DD all night, she felt he wasn’t listening to her saying she wasn’t interested and didn’t want to be stuck in the same flat. She says she told DS this and he told her she was being silly and that the friend is “docile”.
DD ended up not sleeping at all, she said she felt on edge the whole time and left very early.
She has asked me not to say anything to DS as it will make her look pathetic, but I’m really disappointed in him, both in the getting so drunk he had to “have a tactical vomit” on the side of the street, using cocaine and not taking into account his sisters safety or comfort.

AIBU to think I should send him a message explaining that he made his sister very uncomfortable and owes her an apology?
I don’t want to be overbearing but I also think the behaviour last night was out of order.

OP, DS is 28. You are not responsible for his actions and I don't think you need to discuss them with him. You say it is sad you don't see him on his own: I wonder if he feels the same about only seeing you with DH. Could you see him just you and him occasionally?

DD is the big concern here. Cocaine is not my thing but the stand out piece of information for me is that DD felt uncomfortable but didn't do anything to alleviate her situation. There could be lots of reasons for this: the priority for me would be to try to equip her to advocate for herself in future.

When my friends lived in flats and we would all pile back after a night out I slept in random lounges with friends of the host in sofas without feeling uncomfortable in any way. At no point did I feel I was going to be attacked by someone the host knew.

If I had, I would have found another way home. Also, asking to sleep in her brother's room with him and his girlfriend is not a usual request. She sounds like she hasn't got her head around how these things work. She might be the sort who needs to sleep in her own bed with everything arranged how she wants it, which is fine, but in that case she needs to go home rather than expecting the world to continuously adapt to her wishes.

She was 21, had drunk herself and might not have been thinking especially clearly but if she was so repulsed by her brother being sick on the way home, which is fair enough, she should have been looking for a way home.

Is your DH your DS's father? It just feels like he might not be.

Presumably she has learned from this and will not be going on nights out with her brother in future. I feel it would be unacceptable to do that again and complain. His sort of fun is not hers: she needs to not do that again.

I would rather keep out of this, OP. I suspect you getting involved won't help and they are both adults, even if DD is a very young 21. Your days of refereeing sibling disagreements are long gone.

I do wonder if DS might have a different take on the situation and I'm not sure why I wonder that. Might the truth lie between their different perspectives? In my world, going back to someone's flat after a night out and telling the homeowners who should sleep where isn't quite cricket either and won't make DD's social life go with a swing.

Yes I remember, I thought it is very very similar

Just hopping back onto the thread. I'm glad op you've spoken to your son.
You couldn't just have left it.
Get your daughter to look up 'ask for Angela' it's a mechanism to get home if you feel threatened.
Fwiw I live on a private estate and the drugs are sold at the end of my road about 50ft from me. No ring doorbells there!
Dealers are everywhere. With cocaine comes a feeling of being invincible that's why it's so attractive to men. Women take it to avoid eating. Whacky gives the munchies. It might be worth getting a few books in and putting them on your bookcase when you've read them.

It's starting to sound as if your daughter is having a strop because her brother wouldn't do as she wanted.

Made me chuckle…

Sorry OP it sounds like there is some truth in both stories.

At this point I'd step back and let them get on with it. They are both grown ups. As for taking cocaine and getting very drunk, you can only be there for him if it goes haywire and trying not to be judgemental, hopefully he will grow up before that happens.

I'm sure your DD is perfectly capable of looking out for herself. At any age we all make mistakes and learn from them. There are plenty of families that have two or more people that don't get along for reasons of their own as long as you can keep talking to each other that's the main thing.

What... he sniffs Coke what would you call him then? What other drugs does he do you must be so proud! Awful

Why did he fall out with his dad? Anything to do with dd?

A lot going on here.

firstly yes it’s her big brother but DD is 21 and an adult - she is likely to need to handle situations like this with friends and colleagues so needs to have a bit of a learning experience here.

I don’t condone the cocaine use but as a parent not sure what else you can do other than note the potential consequences. I agree if he’s a solicitor it seems particularly risky and careless - he could lose his job in addition to whatever criminal record meaning other job options evaporate. Not the point of this thread so ignore if this is an overstep but is DS’s girlfriend a good influence on him do you think?

The friend situation I feel is worse - on the one hand DD being an adult should either have made sure she was able to get the last train or checked what was going on with alternative arrangements to make sure she was comfortable with staying. But things happen and time gets away. I understand the friend couldn’t be turfed out on the street so I’d question why at that point DS decided to take DD back to his - why didn’t he want to leave his gf? Can they not spend one night apart or was he worried about gf’s safety (in which case this seems silly as she has a friend so she’s not going back home alone, if the friend was the safety concern then that adds to DDs worry at which point why is this friend being allowed to stay, but that’s a separate issue not for you/DD).

I don’t know how far away DS’s place was from wherever they were but if he offered to pay her cab fare back to his I think this isn’t unreasonable and DD isn’t 14, she’s 21 so she should have either sucked up not wanting to travel alone or trusted that whilst the friend may have been a bit of a creep she would be safe as DS and girlfriend were around (not entirely without risk but again not an completely unusual situation for young adults!).

ultimately whist I’m sympathetic to DD and some brothers would have taken her back home to his without the friend, I can see DS’s side that he’s having a nice night out, no one forced the sister to stay and she’s 21 and he’s not a babysitter. (I don’t think that’s particularly nice of him but I don’t think this is uncommon behaviour either.)

Ultimately it seems DS and DD aren’t really the type of siblings that have the same interests and wouldn’t be friends if not related. I’m not saying that they don’t or can’t get on and socialise in future without you, but I would chalk it up to different ideas of fun/risk and ultimately I think it’s best for all of DD doesn’t stay out late with him again unless she’s prepared to be around heavy drinking/drugs/people crashing over and chaotic sleeping arrangements.

I don’t think that’s an issue you need to “fix” as a parent - but I’d work on trying to get DD to be a bit more independent or “worldly” (in the sense of building independence, knowing her boundaries and deciding when to leave a situation she’s not comfortable with and how, accepting not everyone is like her), and for DS I think I’d try and have a chat about the dangerous of drugs even if recreational (job, health, funding of crime and awful things).

This - if l learned that my DS was using drug and put his DSis i danger l would be fuming. If my son was using drugs l would be very disappointed and couldn't see him in the same light; l would have a word with him whether it's right or not.

It's possible that Op's daughter had opportunities to get home but didn't take them.

It seems that she was offered her brother's flat but didn't want it, was kept company by her brother until the trains were running again so wasn't left alone with his friend.

and I know these sort of things happen in professional circles in London

Do they??

I don't think it's as common as you think, and you sound far too casual about the whole thing. Cocaine use is worrying because if you've been on Mumsnet for a long time, you'll notice that cocaine use is closely related to cheating, prostitutes, stripclubs and dangerous driving. Usually all of them appear together in a post.

Your daughter was right to be on edge. She felt pressured to stay in the same place as a man who was not respecting her lack of interest, and that is worrying.

The fact that her brother brushed off her experience is the reason why so many men get anyway with horrible things. Other men don't want to rock the boat, so it's easier for them to dismiss a woman than risk offending another man.

I was thinking exactly the same!

I'd be encouraging DD to say something herself. You can't which I get is hard and I must admit I think I'd be too fuming! But! It would be the wrong thing to do.

Agreed

Solicitors can be "druggies" too. He's using illegal drugs on a regular basis, he's no different from any other drug user.

Your DD sounds like a bit of a spoilt brat expecting everyone to change their plans around her. Your DS friend was already staying over with the DS and his girlfriend but because your DD missed her train and didn't want to catch a cab she wants the friend to be thrown out or her brother to leave his girlfriend and his friend alone together instead. And then she expected someone to give up their bedroom for her, instead of just going home in the early morning.

Yep, assuming DS is telling the truth (it sounds quite likely) she's either an absolute wuss who can't handle a large night out, or has massaged the story to make DS look worse.

Note, I am NOT downplaying her problem with the persistent friend. This happens so often, often with bad results, that men do need to be aware and to take steps to prevent the 'bad results'. Among the many relevant episodes I and most other women have endured, I was sexually assaulted by a boyfriend's brother after the boyfriend asked me to have him over and assured me he was a big softie.

But it sounds like DD rejected both escape plans (go home, go to brother's) and was probably 'chaperoned' most of the night anyway.

I'm sorry, OP. What a pickle for you. I'm glad you talked to DS about it.

Absolutely not being unreasonable. I have lived in London all of my adult life and the use of cocaine or "this sort of thing" is not normal in profession circles. Her brother should be ashamed of himself for putting her in that position. I would be having very strong words with him and expressing my disgust. Also make sure your daughter knows she can call you anytime if she feels uncomfortable so she can get support if she needs it.

I wouldn't message your Son as your DD has asked you not to. I would however have a word with your DS telling him & his GF they need to grow up & be responsible adults not reckless kids taking recreational drugs. They both have good jobs by the sounds of things which will be in jeopardy should their employers find out they take illegal drugs. Or if they're driving days later with traces of coke in their system they'd be in big trouble.
Your DD is an adult & as long as she knows how to set boundaries with others she'll be ok. If she's uncomfortable anytime in future while out with your DS or friends ask her to ring you so your can reassure her at the time. I'm sure her Brother would have been there for her had she really have needed him.

Just stay out of it, this is grown up kids stuff, not parent stuff. They're in their twenties!!

Also coke use is extremely normal in his age group in London. Ignore everyone otherwise.

Where did OP say he was using coke on a regular basis ? She didn’t. She says she knows he has used it but has no idea how often or even whether it’s a habit or occasional use. Again, not condoning it, but you’re basing accusations of addiction (which the word ‘druggie’ suggests) on absolutely nothing.