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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is a tidy ordered house really that important?

218 replies

Shokupanman · Yesterday 00:18

I am a bit done today.

I heard today school mums have been gossiping about my house being a mess and saying I'm "a scruff." These are people I've welcomed into my home, and defended. People who I like and trust.

My mum has early onset dementia, my dad died when I was a child. I do have a sister who is amazing but she has her own family and challenges; we muddle through together to support my mum best we can. I have a 5 year old and an 8 year old, and a high pressured management job. I know my house could be more presentable but I do my best. It's messy but it's clean for the most part. I'm trying not be be but I'm SO hurt. I know my values are good and if someone else told me this story id say it doesn't matter but aibu to be so hurt? It's really upset me. My husband says forget it but I'm struggling. It's like the straw that's breaking the camel's back.

OP posts:
hellogoodbyeandseeyou · Yesterday 15:33

Mischance · Yesterday 15:15

I hope it is not important as my house is neither tidy nor ordered!

Who decides what is important. What is important to me, may not be important to you.

It’s not up to anyone to decide that a dusty home is a ’better’ home, and that the people in it live their life more fully.
Or that a clean home is waste of time. It’s up to the people who live there.

Sometimes it’s even the ability to just tidy as you go and therefore not having to spend much time cleaning at all. The ability to just do what to some people seem like a huge task - to even put a washing on. So it’s much easier to say that cleaning is a waste of time. Which is fair enough.

It’s pointless comparing.

Pallisers · Yesterday 15:37

Its all a conspiracy to stop women doing things that might matter: earning money, making art, learning something new.

Maybe - I don't disagree entirely.

But you could also say there is a dismissal and devaluation of the housework many women do because it is necessary for a family to live reasonably and happily. Its a bit like the Martha and Mary story in the bible. yeah Mary chose the better part of learning etc. But I bet no one there refused the food that Martha produced. They just ate it and instead of saying thank you you did something very valuable there, they treated her with contempt. While expecting another meal when the next mealtime rolls around.

LeedsMum87 · Yesterday 15:39

I have adhd, 2 kids under 4, a dog, a husband that also has adhd and a full time job. I really struggle to keep on top of the housework and when I do, I litterally turn my back for a second and someone else in my household has made a huge mess again. It’s definitely far from perfect.
That said, I do make sure it’s clean and tidy if I’ve got guests coming round because unfortunately I do care what others think.
These women sound like bitchy mean girls though and probably not worth friends keeping if that’s all they have to talk about.
Sorry you’ve been hurt by them x

Liberancho · Yesterday 15:43

Secondly - and here I make my most controversial point - ime very tidy homes tend to be the preserve of the not very well-educated. It's as if tidying up is the kind of intellectual gear they function best in. They tend not to have possessions that pertain to their studies or interests, eg books, furniture from certain periods of historic interest, paintings of certain styles of art. Usually there is a biiiiiiig tv centre stage. That's fine if that's their thing, and if they are happy living that way, but they shouldn't consider it morally superior. People are just different, with different priorities, differnt backgrounds. That's what makes a world and you shouldn't be afraid to occupy the part it you you fit best in

This is the funniest thing I have read on here in awhile.

I would unpick it, but I cannot be arsed.

OP, they aren't nice people. The term 'scruffs' transports me back to the 90s... A daft term that the houseproud set, employ.

Live your life outside of such ridiculous judgements.

Speakofthedevil · Yesterday 15:44

Well, since you asked, yes, I do care, and I do think less of people who look like scruffs and live in 'stys. I wouldn't tell them that unless they asked. If they asked - I would. And I wouldn't gossip behind their backs, that's low and bitchy, I'd rather tell them to their face if needed.

I don't buy the excuses. You (general you, not just the OP) just can't be arsed. So own it, it's ok, your house, your appearance, your business. Now 'mum's sick, dog's dying, ADHD, whatever, whatever, yadda yadda'. I mean, most people have problems and issues. I'm a single mother, have a full-time job, have a couple of health issues, and other stuff. Nothing unique about that. You either want to live like a normal person in a tidy house, and respect yourself enough not to dress like a vagrant or like you gave up in life, or not. I do.

Differentforgirls · Yesterday 15:49

ParmaVioletTea · Yesterday 11:52

I can’t fathom how dim someone has to be to “like” cleaning, and spend one’s time doing it. There is so so much more to life!

People do though. I had a school mum friend who was a physics teacher and head of science. She told me once that if she had to give up her career she would become a cleaner as she loved cleaning!

Thesehills · Yesterday 15:53

Shokupanman · Yesterday 08:08

No there isn't trash everywhere. I clean the kitchen several times a day. Never go to bed without all the dishes being done etc. put laundry away as soon as it's dry. Deep clean the bathroom once a week/fortnight if really busy. We have one hamster but no free roaming pets! We just have a lot of stuff so there is clutter and the living room gets messy. I tidy it all up when the kids go to bed but I guess when school mums have been in my house it's usually cos kids have been to play and the toys are all out!

Just writing that out makes me realise how ridiculous this gossip is. It's not a show home but it's lived in and a place where kids can be kids and I'm not ashamed of that.

They sound bloody awful. You however sound great!

Ignore them.

Anyonegotacluewhattheirjobsabout · Yesterday 16:02

If it helps my house is an armpit! We are clean but v untidy! A lived in house is a loved house

tiramisugelato · Yesterday 16:04

Anyonegotacluewhattheirjobsabout · Yesterday 16:02

If it helps my house is an armpit! We are clean but v untidy! A lived in house is a loved house

I don't get comments like this - do you really believe tidy homes aren't just as loved?

Muffinmam · Yesterday 16:06

I remember overhearing a group of mums talking to each other and they were talking about the most inane crap. Then one of them says (in a very thick Australian - ocker accent) “I know my house is clean - I cleaned it today!”

These women had nothing better to talk about than their clean houses!

That being said - I wouldn’t invite anyone to my house without cleaning it first.

AlexaAdventuress · Yesterday 16:06

When I was young I was fascinated by the offence of "Keeping a disorderly house". Could your house really be so untidy that they'd arrest you for it? Better put my toys away then. Then when I was a little older I found out what it really meant.

MetalliCat89 · Yesterday 16:07

Try not to take it to heart. If I step into someone's home and there is animal poo, cigarette butt's and mouldering food and rubbish everywhere then yes that is disgusting and would also make me seriously consider some sort of mental health issue. If I have to move some kids toys or a cat to sit on the sofa or there's a bit of washing up left from the night before then that's normal! Homes should feel lived in but not filthy. I'm sure yours is fine and your mum friends are just gossiping for lack of any other entertainment.

ThisMauveTurtle · Yesterday 16:17

They are just looking for something to nit pick at.
If that's the worst anyone can say about you, you are doing great

pipthomson · Yesterday 16:17

Have you heard of comparing your insides with other people’s outsides don’t punish yourself for being human nobody lives in a “show-home “

DaffodilLill · Yesterday 16:21

I think your 'friends' were mean. I'd ignore them.

However, as your kids are 5 and 8, they are old enough now to have most of their toys in their bedrooms and only bring down a few things to play with.

We just have a lot of stuff so there is clutter and the living room gets messy.

When mine were that age the living room was pretty much toy-free except for maybe one toy box and reading books etc. Rest was in their rooms and they were at school all day anyway.

It's never too early to teach them to be tidy and clear their stuff away. Or have a de-clutter and give stuff to the charity shops or PTA sales, or whoever might appreciate it.

Have you got the space to store toys and only bring out what they want to play with that day?

This isn't about appeasing other mums, but for your own sanity!
I can't bear loads of stuff in rooms, but that's me!

Nerdynerdynerd · Yesterday 16:38

It's important to me for my mental health but that's a personal preference. Its high up my list of priorities because a messy house gets me down, the cars, garage and garden are a shambles though.

The only person/people I'm judging is them. What a pack of bitches. Id love to be invited round and don't give a shit what your house looks like.

Isobel201 · Yesterday 16:43

I'm single and work from home, but even if I did have more time for cleaning I wouldn't want to do it. I have hobbies I enjoy and would rather be doing them. I make sure the dishwasher is filled regularly as soon as anything is dirty and keep the counters clean in the kitchen where I prep and cook food, but apart from that I don't mind a bit of clutter. I always have some stuff to hand on tables and the settee at the side of me, but I can clear them if guests do come.

ThatLemonBee · Yesterday 17:04

Those are not friends ! Next time they breed anything block them

ThisCandidMintGoose · Yesterday 17:08

Anyonegotacluewhattheirjobsabout · Yesterday 16:02

If it helps my house is an armpit! We are clean but v untidy! A lived in house is a loved house

And a lived in house cannot be tidy AND loved?

I don't understand people who have to tidy up for guests. If you are not comfortable with the state of your home, why do you put up with it and stop your own enjoyment? Your peace in the house is more important that guests visiting for 1 hour?

AImportantMermaid · Yesterday 17:08

Speakofthedevil · Yesterday 15:44

Well, since you asked, yes, I do care, and I do think less of people who look like scruffs and live in 'stys. I wouldn't tell them that unless they asked. If they asked - I would. And I wouldn't gossip behind their backs, that's low and bitchy, I'd rather tell them to their face if needed.

I don't buy the excuses. You (general you, not just the OP) just can't be arsed. So own it, it's ok, your house, your appearance, your business. Now 'mum's sick, dog's dying, ADHD, whatever, whatever, yadda yadda'. I mean, most people have problems and issues. I'm a single mother, have a full-time job, have a couple of health issues, and other stuff. Nothing unique about that. You either want to live like a normal person in a tidy house, and respect yourself enough not to dress like a vagrant or like you gave up in life, or not. I do.

Nobody cares if you think less of people. What impact does that have on them? Zero. But if it gives you a chance to feel like the dog’s bollox fill your boots.

Calliopespa · Yesterday 17:29

ThisCandidMintGoose · Yesterday 14:17

I find the post you are replying to so unnecessarily bitchy 😂it says a lot about who wrote it, why being so nasty?

I agree with you, the people I know who do the most tend to have the calmest homes. House is full of books, but they have things called bookcase and the books are not, I don't know, on a big pile on the floor?

furniture from certain periods of historic interest how is that untidy in any way? You see them better when they're not hidden under a pile of mess though.

People are indeed hosting, and have pretty much an open-house, because it's always.. visitor ready? So kids friends, playdates, adult coming by? Always welcome.

It's much easier for children to study and find their resources in a tidy environment too. They do non-stop clubs and do need all kind of kits, which are easy to find and full because they are put away properly.

If these threads show something, it's that it's people who seem to bring a lot of anger and resentment, and jealousy by the sound of it.

Yes, it was my post to which you are referring, and I was expecting to get push-back - the reason being the very reason for which I wrote it.

There are certain topics that operate a kind of "valve system" when it comes to criticism. One of these is weight, where it seems to be that people feel they are doing some sort of public honesty service by calling people out for being overweight, yet the merest hint that someone might look wrinkly or gaunt or ill from lack of weight is seen as rude (and it is). The same seems to apply to untidy houses where people love to critique from a position of thinking theirs is tidier (like the "friends" of the OP) as though being on the tidy side of the fence gives some sort of immunity to being unkind. Many such threads even start to haul out the MH diagnoses, and always judgments are cast such as @GethsemaneHall's comment that people with messy homes tend to "lack get up and go. " Yet try the accusations in reverse, and suddenly those types are 😦

The background to my post is that I mix with a lot of academics, and, you guessed it, many have faintly shambolic homes. I hear so much criticism of them for it. One had a party for her dc a couple of years back and the MIL was there. There are several tables in the house but, at that time, they were covered by paperwork and books (and yes, she has heard of bookcases, but was mid flight working on things). Her work was across two tables and a third had a huge and frankly rather amazing Lego work in progress that the whole family were doing together. But yes, it was messy. She had then organised a brilliant party game where she had set clay in trays with tiny fossils inside for the children to excavate. Of course that became a bit messy too and the amount of vitriolic criticism coming from her MIl was unbelievable. Lots of sneery muttering about "no wonder the place is such a shambles [tinkly, taut-throated laugh]"; "Well we COULD have put the cake on the table in the living room but ... " [ followed by despairing trailing off and pained look complete with eye roll]. And yes, the place was messy, probably shambolic, but the children were happy, stimulated and my dc have not stopped talking about that party. At that time I did think I have a mental image of EXACTLY what your house looks like MIL, and when we dropped by some months later it was indeed EXACTLY what I had imagined and I thought how absurd it would be if my friend had started in with the same sorts of negative, needling comments in the other direction. But of course she didn't, because in one direction commenting is seen by some as acceptable and in the other direction it is recognised as what it is: rude and judgy.

A similar story is possibly a bit outing so I paused before posting it, but then realised I need not worry as the friend in question has no DC, messy creatures that they are! But over the years I have got to know her DSis, who is a lovely lady. One of her DC is ND with SEN and she runs the most amazing art sessions for him and other children with similar needs. The house is quite messy, but she has loads of their work displayed everywhere and has put a lot of time into it generally. My friend herself, who is fun on a night out but frankly lives in quite a self-focused way, is unbelievably condescending about her Dsis' home. She herself has loads of (honestly quite amazing; I think they both have an artistic vibe that self-expresses very differently) wardrobe of incredible clothes. Think big walk-in with a glass centre cabinet to keep dust of her gloves etc. But she thinks it is somehow fine to talk about her Dsis as having "a grotty little house with all that peculiar kiddy craft everywhere." I just don't think it's OK, and I do tire of hearing these things dressed up as "concerns" for people.

Both the messy home owners in these examples have nothing whatsoever to feel embarrassed about, and both bring a lot of joy and skill to bear on their activities.

So I'm afraid I take the view that if it's ok to cast judgment, then it can be cast in all directions. We can all say what we think when we enter a certain type of home. Or we all shut up: I don't mind which.

And I'm glad some poster's reactions demonstrate they have clearly taken heart in what I posted.

And as for the comments about jealousy, yes I think that DOES play a role, but usually not on the part of the person with the mess. I suspect my friend's MIL is a frustrated academic herself who never got the chance and would have loved to get her teeth into something a bit more fulfilling than pledging the dining room table for the 8th time that month.

As for me, I'm lucky: we have a cleaner - as does, incidentally, the friend with the enormous, glass-cabinted dressing room. But I am not about to judge anyone who doesn't.

Calliopespa · Yesterday 17:32

ThisCandidMintGoose · Yesterday 17:08

And a lived in house cannot be tidy AND loved?

I don't understand people who have to tidy up for guests. If you are not comfortable with the state of your home, why do you put up with it and stop your own enjoyment? Your peace in the house is more important that guests visiting for 1 hour?

Because some guests are very judgy - as this thread shows.

ThisCandidMintGoose · Yesterday 17:40

Calliopespa · Yesterday 17:32

Because some guests are very judgy - as this thread shows.

and? If they are not your friends, don't invite them.
Or why do you care? Judgy people can judge anything, your address, the colour of your walls? Would people repaint the living room to satisfy judgy guests?

If you hate the state or your house, you are weird to put up with it.
If it's perfect for you, then why change.
Nothing to do with guests.

When I read the hysteria from local groups about teachers visiting before the kids start reception, it's ridiculous. Or a bit of a worry if kids live in such terrible condition the house needs a complete overhaul and a week cleaning and tidying before a teacher can walk in.

Liberancho · Yesterday 17:45

Calliopespa · Yesterday 17:32

Because some guests are very judgy - as this thread shows.

Your epic posts suggest otherwise.

Plus your need to let everyone know you gather books on shelves.

Great you have a cleaner and don't judge those that don't.

I do worry about all those messy academics that don't have someone cleaning up their dust and mess.

Cooshawn · Yesterday 17:46

For me, yes it's very important. I don't think messy can be clean because that wouldn't make sense. How can the messy parts be clean?

I'd never bitch or gossip about someone's home, but I wouldn't go again if it was too chaotic or dirty for me.

I'm very very busy. I have more than a full time job, care for a parent with dementia, I'm studying for a masters, volunteer as chair of governors, sit on appeal panels and have a few other volunteering roles. My husband is disabled and we have dogs that want plenty of exercise.

My house is tidy and clean. I've had to develop systems that work for me (ADHD and ASD) but find it stresses me when things aren't as they should be now. If you don't see it as priority, that's fine. And people shouldn't be bitching about you. But I think you're lying to yourself when you say you don't have the time.