AIBU to think these boys should have been incarcerated?

[newrubylane]

BBC News - Teenage boys sentenced for raping lone girls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clypg68e2neo

I've never started an AIBU before, but I'm genuinely really shocked. I'm just not sure how this sentence is justifiable. Their actions were premeditated and deliberate, they were carrying a knife and they filmed themselves. They're obviously a danger to women/girls, and probably to other boys too.

If anyone knows how and why this sentence might have come about, I'd be interested to hear it.

I have submitted a complaint using the form above. It was easy. You just need the date of the sentencing (21.5.26) and the court (Southampton). I put Unknown for the names and included the bbc link in my text. My complaint is that there is now no deterrent for underage gang rapists.

I think you need to take a deep breath. People “like me” don’t do anything apart from try and learn more about ways to obtain the best results, not knee jerk into what sounds good.

you might think prison sentences are a deterrent, but that doesn’t align with the enormous amount of rape committed.

Rehabilitation isn’t necessarily about long sentences- in many cases, especially children that has a low rehabilitation rate and poor outcomes. With children, other forms of rehabilitation- such as therapeutic- have much higher rehabilitation rates

at the end of the day, if what you want is for them to come out having learnt to be productive members of society and never recommit crime, why don’t you want to see them experience whatever has the highest rate of that happening?

Doesn't matter what these boys thought. If you imprison them for the rest of their lives, they sure as hell won't be raping anymore girls. That's all we should care about. They forfeited their right to freedom when they raped this poor girl, and she will have a lifelong sentence anyway, whether or not the boys are locked up.

I think it’s pretty clear to everyone at this point that rape has been effectively decriminalised in this country with only a very, very tiny proportion of rapists ever serving a sentence. So, no, it probably seemed very likely to them that they would get away with it. And they have.

Thank you all for your input on my post! I'm relieved to see others agree with me. I will also be submitting the form suggested to object to this sentence.

It’s disgusting. The law still treats women as second class citizens, the lack of respect is undeniable looking at the statistics of prosecutions or lack of.
Poor girl, lifelong trauma.

While it's simple to say they should be in jail what good would that do from the point of view of rehabilitating these boys?

Form submitted.

There is no sentence in the uk that will see a 15 year old in prison for the rest of their life, even murder- as I’m sure you know.

As I said previously, if you imprison them for the rest of their lives, they sure as hell won't be raping any more girls.

I have now also submitted an unduly lenient sentence. This is an absolute disgrace.

This abhorrent, I'm utterly sick of teenagers getting off with murder, literally. Just because their brain isn't fully developed until they're tenty-five, doesn't mean they don't know right from wrong. They had the capacity to do this which means they're vile human beings whether they're fifteen of fifty-five.

Chemical castration occurs to me. Cheaper than indefinitely detaining him (which it’s clear the ‘system’ doesn’t want to do anyway)

That doesn't mean it wouldn't be the right thing to do. And there are prison sentences between nothing at all and life.

It would at least have kept safe the girls that they will now no doubt go on to rape. And they’re hardly going to be rehabilitated by being told “don’t worry, you’re free to crack on with your lives”.

You’ve twice said that they should’ be imprisoned for the rest of their lives. There is no way for them to be sentenced to that

They’re from Southampton. And with sentences like that, I’d bet my house they’re white.

The daily mail says they are travellers. Which may or may not be true.

I don't understand the quotes about 'not criminalising' these boys. They are criminals and prison or not they have been convicted of violent, sexual offences.

Of course they have been criminalised as they are criminals.

Anyone saying they wouldn't want these boys criminalised is mad. I want their offending to be recorded and to be searchable forever and for things like DBS to be forever flagged up.

Otherwise you could have a dangerous violent rapist applying for a job in a nursery school or as a sports coach ffs.

So they have been criminalised you silly judge. And rightly so.

you might think prison sentences are a deterrent, but that doesn’t align with the enormous amount of rape committed

I don’t think prison is a deterrence to idiot criminals. The point is to keep them away from the rest of us.

Rehabilitation isn’t necessarily about long sentences- in many cases, especially children that has a low rehabilitation rate and poor outcomes. With children, other forms of rehabilitation- such as therapeutic- have much higher rehabilitation rates
at the end of the day, if what you want is for them to come out having learnt to be productive members of society and never recommit crime, why don’t you want to see them experience whatever has the highest rate of that happening

Guarantee you the type of boys that lure girls out and gang rapes them, recording it and said recording showing them laughing about it and egging each other on in the gangrape, will never, ever be productive members of society.

So when they inevitably rape again (and you know it will be lower likelihood they’ll be caught the next time), it will be the fault of this judge and people like you, who think such kids can be ‘rehabilitated’. They can’t. Stop trying, you only inflict pain on the innocent

I can't see anywhere in that article that says they are from Southampton.

My thoughts exactly

This has a bit more information- admittedly not much - and has a bit more on the judge’s comments.

One boy had a “mild cognitive impairment” and the other was in the bottom 1% of his peers cognitively and also had ADHD.

Being neurodivergent myself, I hate it when it’s brought up as a factor - you can really either the impulsiveness of ADHD while still being perfectly capable of refraining from rape. Or indeed any other crime. Well, if you’re female at least….

I also think that the “bottom 1% of his peers” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. It’s certainly not any kind of significant learning disability which would mean that he didn’t understand the severity or consequences of his actions.

@Backedoffhackedoff - my ex used to work on the YOS team, and so did a former friend. I can’t say interventions ever seemed to be successful or as if they made a meaningful difference. Both of them mentioned the fact that in almost all cases they saw, there were significant family issues. Quite often the families were unsupportive or disinterested. At the less severe end of offences, youths would complete their sentence - and inevitably bounce back into it again as they commit another offence. I understand your point about aiming to get the best outcome for the sake of society - but surely this just feels like a tap on the wrist? Half the time offenders weren’t where they were supposed to be and their case workers had to hunt them down.

edit - forgot the link! https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/three-boys-avoid-prison-rape-two-girls-5HjdZW4_2/

So angry....form submitted.

It would keep other girls safe from them.

It would send a message to other teenage boys who think rape is normal that it isn’t and there are consequences, so it would further protect women.

It might not do much for their rehabilitation, but that is secondary to the considerations above, since it affects fewer people.

One could also argue that if you are capable of participating in and filming a gang rape aged 13 or 14, there is no rehabilitating you and we may as well not waste resource on it.