AIBU to think these boys should have been incarcerated?

[newrubylane]

BBC News - Teenage boys sentenced for raping lone girls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clypg68e2neo

I've never started an AIBU before, but I'm genuinely really shocked. I'm just not sure how this sentence is justifiable. Their actions were premeditated and deliberate, they were carrying a knife and they filmed themselves. They're obviously a danger to women/girls, and probably to other boys too.

If anyone knows how and why this sentence might have come about, I'd be interested to hear it.

I don’t mean to be rude @BloominNora but you assert that you’ve done some ‘research’ but you’re not aware that it’s the AG that considers whether the sentence is unduly lenient- it’s nothing to do with the Home Secretary. Such a rookie error does rather undermine what other research you claim to have done.

What on earth makes you think that voting Reform will make this stop, though?

I understand your sentiment but I don’t think I could go that far, I would probably pinch my nose and vote conservative though! , and yes I’m aware that many people think they are as bad as reform!

You are derailing a serious thread.

I have asked for a review. This is disgusting!

Ok, ok, maybe i‘m just angry and want action…perhaps I need to calm down and be a bit more dispassionate. I just want to vote for someone who will stop this. Do that, and you’ve got my vote.

It beyond shocking isnt it? between those two, they already have 11 rape convictions. And these are the known ones. What about their silent victims. Am sure they are more. And they are only 15 and 14. scary! Sure they should be named to safeguard other girls and women. And how can they hide their names and not give them a custodial sentence? They must be laughing their heads off. Its like saying, we've seen what you have done, now go and this time try not to get caught. When will women and girls be valued?

I understand that. Sadly, it's not Reform- they only care if the offenders are brown and the majority of VAWG is committed by white men. It is an epidemic and something needs to be done, although I'm inclined to say that whilst I'm disgusted by this sentence, the actual root of the problem runs deeper than sentencing and I want to know why boys are feeling such hatred and aggression towards women at such a young age. Who is allowing this entitlement to spread?

I have never read anything so disturbing. Telling my partner about it and literally in tears. Those poor little girls, their lives will never be the same. The boys should have been castrated and sent to men’s prison where they’d receive a taste of their own medicine. If I was one of those mothers, I’d be asking the judge to send my son to prison.

i am absolutely appalled.

i went to fill in the unduly lenient sentence form but no need as it is already under review and more complaints won’t change that.

what is wrong with this world? It’s a scary place to have children.

Well done everyone who asked for the review ❤️ we can do this for many other cases, it’s a great way of taking a stand, I hope the girls are supported they are warriors.

And how would they do that?

The sentencing guidelines that apply in this case were signed off in 2017. They’re actually pretty sensible and I think we’ll see the judge in this case has over emphasised the few mitigating factors, and under counted the aggravating ones.

https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/sexual-offences-sentencing-children-and-young-people/?source=7511

Filling in forms is not hysterical, nor is it mob justice.

Better if he’d been quiet but not really inappropriate - he’s upset, probably pretty shocked and confused. At least one of the boys was described as in the lowest percentile for IQ, the father is unlikely to be entirely the full ticket. Hearing your child convicted of rape must be pretty horrifying.

Reform are anti-women! Farage voted against increasing punishments for up-skirting, stalking and spiking and taking explicit photos without women's knowledge .......if you think a vote for Reform is a vote for women's rights then you are sadly mistaken

Please let’s not derail this thread with talk of politics, @Pigeonpoodle, was simply displaying the depths of her grief, anger and dissolution with the way women and girls are treated.

Thank you. Given these guidelines it makes the judges decision even more difficult to understand.

I never understand their logic. Just because your brain isn't fully developed until 25, it doesn't mean it hasn't developed enough to understand basic concepts such as "rape is wrong".

I was thinking how awful it had been for the jury to hear this case. Then for the foreman to announce the verdict and the father to call out. I have been on a jury, for a far lesser case, and when it was suggested that I be the foreperson I felt too intimidated. Anyway, the judge sent the father out of the court.

I would suggest a more appropriate way of dealing with serious or violent offences is to do what they do in the Netherlands and send offenders to a secure hospital with detention reviewed every two years by a Judge.

Worth pointing out that offenders are not keen on being 'Nutted Off' as hospitals have a more regimented regime and offenders are held to account for what they have done which they dont like.

I always assumed that this was simply the optimal age for learning and that it was not as easy once you got to 25 and above 🤷‍♀️

The judge would have sent anyone in the gallery out, I agree the father should have been quiet but again not clear that he was trying to intimidate the foreperson.

I would somewhat disagree that every custodial environment for young offenders is inevitably brutalising. Feltham and some of the older YOIs absolutely have deeply troubling records and I wouldn't dismiss that. But Adel Beck in Leeds, Hassockfield and some of the smaller Secure Children's Homes operate very differently. They have smaller units, higher staff to young person ratios and genuine therapeutic provision. They are not perfect but they are a world away from the brutalising environment. The problem is that provision is so inconsistent and so dependent on where you are in the country that the postcode lottery element is itself an injustice.
The answer to that though is surely to demand better custodial provision for serious cases like this and not to conclude that custody itself is the problem.

Re the “That’s my son” outburst from one of the defendants’ fathers. Yes, that is indeed your son. Who has raped 2 girls. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your problem. Your son is now society’s problem. You will have to live with the consequences of that.