AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

[estrogone]

We have a junior in our office who’s only been with us about three months and is still on probation, where the expectation is mostly office-based work. They briefly mentioned in passing at one point that they might travel overseas, but there was never any proper discussion or approval before the trip was booked.

They’ve now come back and advised the trip is already booked and confirmed for nearly a month overseas, in a time zone 10 hours away. They proposed a range of adjusted working arrangements, including shortened hours and overnight work, so they can continue working remotely while away.

I haven’t approved the shortened hours or alternative arrangements and have asked them to demonstrate how they realistically intend to maintain service levels and cope with working nights while effectively on holiday overseas.

I am a lot WTAF to four weeks of leave for someone who has only been with the business a matter of months and is still in probation.

AIBU to think this is request is out of order?

When you are a small company, you only employee people as you need them....so anyone missing, no matter what the role, can be very difficult to manage. You need to be realistic. Having one employee missing from a larger organisation is not as much an issue but the smaller you are the harder it is to manage.

In a small business, it very much does affect the entire team when someone is away for an unexpected and short notice month long trip.

Managing holidays in a small business is difficult, and everyone needs to pitch in to help. But it’s manageable when holiday is requested and approved and plans are made. It is not manageable when it’s a new member of staff who has taken on a client facing role; and is still building those relationships and everyone else (who would have been covering that work during the hiring process) is finally getting back to their own work.

When someone gets ill, or hit by a car or their spouse dies… you bend over backwards to cover for that. This is not an emergency. This is a member of staff totally taking the piss and unable to be professional. Thankfully they have listened to the feedback from the OP and realised the error they made here.

But you clearly have no idea about running a small business so just stop. You’re acting as thought they should be able to absorb a month long absence with ease and she is failing as a business owner if they can’t. That is total nonsense. Just stop. When you’re in a hole and you’ve embarrassed yourself, just stop digging.

Thanks for your input.

@estrogone Your other employees now know you make exceptions. This could come back to bite you!

You are implying that this person being away effects 14 other people.

Of course it does. If the person is absent for 20 working days, that's around 1.5 days extra work for each employee. And quite possibly someone else will also be absent in that time, due to illness, or pre-booked leave, which will also have to be covered.

I know op said she will hope to employ a temp, but the temp will have to be trained and supervised, which will take up someone's time.

@HelenaWilson You have to worry about why people have no idea about business costs! I find it amazing that posters cannot work out that absence, when not planned, for this length is a cost to the businesses. In fact planned absences are a cost but the business owner has a chance to absorb costs more readily and look at how the work will be covered.

If you cannot cope with people rejecting your advice, don't post.

Just because someone asks for advice, doesn't mean they are obliged to follow or agree with any of the responses.

OFFS!

Of course 1 person being away adds workload to the other 14. Of course one person being allowed to take liberties may result in 14 other people demanding to take liberties and render the entire business unviable.

You don't seem to have a clue about how businesses work.

Why are you being a right royal pain in the backside?

Of course this person being off impacts others otherwise why would they even have a job

Just catching up and it sounds like you found a really workable solution.

it’s obvious that some people on here don’t run businesses!!

it was totally inappropriate to manage leave like that - just very disrespectful from their side and clearly didn’t understand the impact. It’s also the perceptions of others when they see what’s happening. It sounds like you have a supportive small business and this persons rudeness was about to upset the status quo.

Those saying we all have a right to flexible working etc. actually we don’t!! It has to also fit the business. In my work there is some flexibility for some roles but impossible for others. How can working nights when you’re supposed to be client facing work?!

who on earth books 4 weeks leave in probation when you’ve not even accrued it. Selfish people generally. Not thinking. A good lesson though for them and also great chance to update policies.

I hope they turn out to be ok!!

Well handled!

This is what I have seen in companies that I have worked for;

Pre booked holiday is discussed at interview

After interview holiday is accrued, then booked.

Any holiday over 2 weeks had to have special approval by the management before booking the holiday

Zero working at home, unless by special agreement

Zero working abroad due to tax rules, security, insurance.

Holiday could be disrupted by how many other people are off due to holiday, sickness, maternity, paternity, family leave etc

Suggest that your company updates their holiday, HR policies

@WatercolourPaper Many companies have similar but what does yours do when an employee ignores the policies and says they’ve booked a month with only 5 days accrued? Should be a discipline matter surely? A stern letter of expectation is not a written warning. Essentially this employee has done what they wanted to do. Of course the HR policies were lax but the difficult decision is whether it’s a disciplinary matter or not and the op has decided not.

Yes, I'm inclined to think OP has been too soft here. This request is indicative of a poor attitude, and it's sly - presumably they were asked during recruitment if they had any travel plans and they chose not to disclose. I'm sure this won't be the last time this employee causes an issue!

Office Junior has been allowed to get away with being extremely cheeky here. I’d be so unimpressed if I were another employee.

@AlexaStopAlexaNo This does indeed impinge on others and sets a precedent. It’s foolish not have a written warning scenario in my view.

Is it leave If they are still working??

@Brokennn It’s unpaid time away from work. So I guess they will be accruing paid leave whilst away! They should not be working if there’s security issues with taking laptop away.

This is not a reasonable assumption to make. If it wasn't properly agreed in advance, then I would just say no.

If I was feeling really generous, I might allow them to take a mix of annual leave (whatever they will have accrued by that time) and unpaid leave for the month. But I would make it very clear that they shouldn't have booked anything without getting it approved first and next time would be a flat no.

I wouldn't authorise the remote working. Too many complications around insurance, data protection and cyber security, employment legislation etc.

It might prove to be an expensive lesson for them.